Mutiny and R.O.C.

[Doobie]

Before I begin I'd like to say that I am very much in favor of the mutiny feature, and I am sure many others are too. While I did suffer the cruel fate of a mutiny last night, I do understand it was a Beta Test and people are dying to try new features which would explain why several resign votes failed, but a mutiny passed with ease.

As this story unfolds our team had just lost its second Outpost, we had advanced tech, Hints, and 40% of the map. A couple pessimists on my team had now cast the third resign vote of the game. All three votes failed, and feeling that team moral was being dragged down, I booted the two in hopes of getting on. What happened next was completely un-expected.

A few minutes later a new player wanted to join, I happily accepted the player expecting the team sizes to even out, and the stack to shrink. Immediately after accepting the new player a Mutiny was called. And at the most in-opportune time, I was nanning the final miner load to buy Htts. Mutiny passes, I get booted, and by the time I get back on the server game was over.

While ROC boot resign states all or majority of the team is booted so a resign vote passes, it still feels dirty to get booted before a resign is called. Especially from the team one is commanding. Further more if this was one of the players I had previously booted for poor moral, then this may also be in violation of ROC "retaliatory booting".

Now if the player who did mutiny and boot feels there is a legitimate reason for booting me, by all means step up and let me know. But as I saw the game, we still had potential with one miner load to HTT's, 40% of the map, and all our tech still in hand. The mutiny it self does not seem warranted. However I do not harbor any ill will as this was a BETA test and simply put 'a game'.

So after some thought on this game, I saw some potential for Mutiny abuse:

-A player may join the under stacked team to mutiny / resign and not anti-stack. In the mutineer's view, they want this game to end and a "better" one to begin. This will make it very difficult for Commanders trying to get even teams after the game has started only to find out he didn't accept a courageous anti-stacker, but a mutineer.

-This could also lead to Mutiny / resigns by new players who haven’t even looked at the map or the tech tree, just HELO numbers.

-Booted players’ joining back with a hider to mutiny and boot the commander. "Retaliatory booting"??

-Players calling mutiny / resign after seeing the other team get the stack after the game has started.

-Mutiny calls because a player doesn't agree with the strategy being deployed by the commander. While a mutiny may be legitimate because a noob commander doesn't build bases or miners, one player thinking a bomb rush or TAC is a bad idea and calls a mutiny is another. (We waste enough time deciding on commanders in the lobby),

-Many pissed off commanders.

-Users of the mutiny feature not getting accepted to play for a team. And quite frankly why would a commander you have mutinied in the past want you? Trust me when I say it stings, a hell lot more then a resign vote.



With my gripe now over, I invite you all to participate in this discussion, or flame me if you must... My suggestion at this time is to consider including into the ROC; guidlines for the Mutiny feature.

[Tallon]

You said "hints". You're a worthless voob. I'm glad you got mutinied.

Also, TL, DR.

[Fragtzack]

Realize that the majority of the team has to vote yes for a mutiny. Booting people on your team without warning can also cause your team to lose morale and lose confidence in the commander. Especially when your team is already down pilots and quality of pilots.

Doobie, You were doing a fine job as commander.
Let it go man, don't take it personal.

[CronoDroid]

I don't understand why the mutiny feature isn't just left as is with the button relabelled "Attempt Mutiny" and so it doesn't actually stop donation.

While this system is by no means flawless, it does require a semblance of teamwork and general Ork-like sneakiness to use effectively, which prevents its abuse and use by idiots.

And boy, would it be annoying to be commanding a massive, epic game, or even a fun one, or even worse a voob or non-commander trying his or her hand at commanding only to be booted by the mutiny system. It's far too easy to use at its current stage.

Also, I don't know why it boots the old commander. Who the $#@! came up with that idea? It should just hand over command to the proposer and leave the original commander on the team so the new commander can do with him or her what he or she pleases. I mean, they still may want to win and thus can contribute to the team as a valuable player. And if they don't like being mutinied, they can just quit the game.

Why the boot? What is the possible justification for booting the commander? What if a noob was commanding the game and the vets needed to take it back? Is it fair to boot the noob?

Seriously. Bad idea.

[madpeople]

QUOTE (Tallon @ Sep 6 2007, 09:13 AM) You said "hints". You're a worthless voob. I'm glad you got munitied.

Also, TL, DR.

that was pretty much my thought, saying hints instead of hvys is justification for muntiny-boot.

but yeah, the roc will probably need to be updated.

and i do like the old system, and think we should have tried it with the re-labelled stop donating button

[gr4vity]

QUOTE (Doobie @ Sep 6 2007, 03:03 AM) While ROC boot resign states all or majority of the team is booted so a resign vote passes, it still feels dirty to get booted before a resign is called. Especially from the team one is commanding. Further more if this was one of the players I had previously booted for poor moral, then this may also be in violation of ROC "retaliatory booting".

This sounds very much like Retaliatory booting. Please check your pm Doobie.

Fragtzack:

Its absolutely correct to boot a vet who spams #resign. Since he obviously refuses anyway to help the team so you rather want the rest of your guys stay focuses instead of having a bitching useless player within your ranks.


Regards
grav@RT /cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="cool.gif" />

[Pos_21]

QUOTE (Tallon @ Sep 6 2007, 03:13 AM) You said "hints". You're a worthless voob. I'm glad you got munitied.

Also, TL, DR.

QUOTE (madpeople @ Sep 6 2007, 07:16 AM) that was pretty much my thought, saying hints instead of hvys is justification for muntiny-boot.

but yeah, the roc will probably need to be updated.

and i do like the old system, and think we should have tried it with the re-labelled stop donating button

Thank god you people still exist, I was beginning to think I was alone out here.

[aem]

I've voiced my concerns from the beginning. I had an entirely different proposal, but #mutiny was used. It is possible this goes by without much abuse but I feel this easily has the potential to bring about way more chaos than the whole newbies stop donating problem we were trying to fix.

I basically wanted to use the system that was in place, but have some sort of mutiny button. The main difference is that you would not stop donating when you try to mutiny. Preferably the commander would not get any notification or be able to tell the button was clicked. Something I just thought of: perhaps a new chat channel that everyone on the team sees except the commander, so if you need to organize a mutiny, you aren't just stuck having to send PMs.

I am very worried about #mutiny. Here is what I expect to happen:The power hungry newbs will try to mutiny often. This problem is more of an annoyance on the main server(s). However, think of the chaos that is likely to come about on the newbie server or other servers with mostly inexperienced players. I expect to see cases of musical coms, having no order in the game whatsoever. There will be multiple on each server who keep trying to get a command spot.Mutiny will hurt the already small pool of players willing to command. If you aren't one of the top commander, you will see mutiny's because you did such and such not the best you could have. Not being perfect is not a reason to mutiny but that is what will happen with #mutiny. It will inevitably turn more and more players away from commanding.Those two points are my main fears that I think will happen with the #mutiny system. Of course there are more, but those are the ones I think we need to really think about.

[Xason]

Could it be coded that you have to be a certain rank (or time played) in order to attempt a mutiny? At least if your booted it was by someone who had "some" skill and length of playing time.

[aem]

Problem is that could remove the ability completely to mutiny on the newbie server. Given the arrogance and ignorance of most of the coms there, they need the ability to mutiny somehow.