Allegiance - The Future
yea.. try to command a game without Exp. You will get pushing in most cases /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />TheVoid37 wrote:QUOTE (TheVoid37 @ Jul 26 2007, 03:16 PM) This is another thing I feel allegiance suffers from, complacancy. Early on people tried new tactics all the time, new strategies all the time, some worked some didn't. Now it seems the main strat is just econ and that's it. Very rarely do I see a variety of hard core bomber rushes or cap rushes, and other out of the box thinking that once occured, but that is whole other thread. But something that this might dig up a tad.
Well right now their Allegiance experience basically means "BiosExp+GS" or Out9 games on the newbie server.carbon wrote:QUOTE (carbon @ Jul 26 2007, 04:24 PM) I just have fond memories of being yelled at as a noob to nan the bomber, it was like joining the military and being thrown into the front lines. My only real concern is that if this vet server was to gain in popularity and people took to playing games on it more than the pickup servers, then the newer and less involved players wouldn't be able to experience the Allegiance experience for what it really is.
Thats what I thought for a long time. But the reality of pu games kinda changed my mind.carbon wrote:QUOTE (carbon @ Jul 26 2007, 04:24 PM) You talk of improving everyones' game by concentrating the players who want to play well for the team, but I'd argue that although it does have its problems, we all improve our game when we play together on the one server, even if it does mean a boot-resign /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
I spend a lot of energy and time explaining stuff to new folks. Before/while/after flying or commanding. Stuff like how can you nan, use f3, why probing ect > game basics. In the end the only one who really improve are those individual who want to improve. What is all your "advanced game knowledge" worth when you cant apply it anyway since you constantly have to start to explain how to nan to 50% of your team and scream on the other 50% to go grab a nan?
Also don't forget that TheVoid's suggestion is aiming on a good amount of players who don't play pickup games any more.. so you can't really say they would be missed since they are already gone. The mercs/newbies outnumber the squaded players anyway so there will be enough players for the main server.
In any case we should just give it a try and see how it goes. The idea is not too bad. ( btw funny: the last time I saw Shiz commanding I had to "antistack" him for the first time ever. Most of the voobs would not know and fly against him )
Regards
grav@RT /cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> ps: I wish I would experience the "decent gameplay" carbon is speaking about. /mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />
Last edited by gr4vity on Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"WyldKarde@RT: It's like the Picard Manouver, but with more hair."
Merc here....
I don't have any problem with it. I just wonder why it isn't an option already since you can presently select based on novice, intermediate, etc. only. Why cant you just make the same ground rules based on squad only? If anyone without a squad tag shows up, an admin gives him a nice little ban.
The only down side is then the "regular" or non-squad server becomes like the noob server and it gets harder for mercs to get a decent game. But hey, I play for fun so have at it.
I don't have any problem with it. I just wonder why it isn't an option already since you can presently select based on novice, intermediate, etc. only. Why cant you just make the same ground rules based on squad only? If anyone without a squad tag shows up, an admin gives him a nice little ban.
The only down side is then the "regular" or non-squad server becomes like the noob server and it gets harder for mercs to get a decent game. But hey, I play for fun so have at it.
"What if, star sailor, I were to come over your house and punch you in the $#@!ing face?!
Will that finally get you to shut the hell up?!?" -- neotoxin
FOXES AVL did not get a leg up cause he tried to force a core choice during a Time when the "CORE WARS" was at its worst.
Squad Games Work because we allow core choice. We as Squaded teams choose to be reasonable and swicth up cores. To be honest I dislike A plus core(AKA GOD).
1. I simply find it too time consuming to learn the changing nuiances of multiple cores.
2. I trust Noir's intelligience and ability to make small changes better then any core developer to date. That does not mean I think DN 4.6 x, is perfect. However, Noir gives changes a chance to flush them selfs out and "captures the entire" balance affect.
Now.... Back on target....
I want to be away from the New folks occassionally. After 7 + years I get tired of helping people I just want to play an all out break neck game and not have to be distracted by NEWBIES IN SPACE .
People ........
This is not a new concept . For years every time this concpet is discussed I have tried to remind people that there is practical day to day working examples of this.
TENNIS MATCHES.
Tennis has League play and you can only play in your ranked area...... for league play. It is considered a dis service for A rated Vets to play against D level players.
ALL School Sports.
In every facet of School Sports there is a Junior and A Varsity TEAM.
As kids growing up there is league play that seperates people for very good reason. So both the experinced and inexperinced folks can both mature and enjoy their gaming experience.
We put such a hugh emphasis on the NEWBIES because we want to ensure the continuance of the game. Those who have been in control adamantly beleive we must let the new folks in every vet game because anything else will not work. Others insist new folks will not get better an learn bad habits if we relagate them out of vet servers. There are as usual merits to these arguments. But I counter with the Vet's deserve the chance to play competitive VET only games. People should earn their way into the Vet only server the same way people do it in regular competitive play in Tennis. What that criteria would be for access I can not say.. Maybe require hours of play to move from the NEWBIE level to the access to the Next level. How you would move and have access could be based on Rank... if rankings could be fixed. Number of hours of play doesn't certainly mean some one is good but the majority wuld have a clue .
I will leave the debaters to figure out how people would work through the Ranks or how people would progress to the next server. I would suggest that there always be an all open server for the time of day when there are not enough people to support several games.
While I do not have empirical data to back this up.... latley it seems to me the games are starting to get bigger and bigger like they used to be when the game first came out. We should be encouraging people to have small games so we can have more people who have tried their hand at commanding. Hard to ask people to command games when the Skill and stacking qutoients can be pretty intimadating. We have unintentionally trained vets not to bother to command during prime time cause the Hoighly competitive player won't give them the time of day most games. This would alleviate some of that too..
Okay I am done ranting for now... I will save this post and send it back out in another year when the topic comes up again.
Squad Games Work because we allow core choice. We as Squaded teams choose to be reasonable and swicth up cores. To be honest I dislike A plus core(AKA GOD).
1. I simply find it too time consuming to learn the changing nuiances of multiple cores.
2. I trust Noir's intelligience and ability to make small changes better then any core developer to date. That does not mean I think DN 4.6 x, is perfect. However, Noir gives changes a chance to flush them selfs out and "captures the entire" balance affect.
Now.... Back on target....
I want to be away from the New folks occassionally. After 7 + years I get tired of helping people I just want to play an all out break neck game and not have to be distracted by NEWBIES IN SPACE .
People ........
This is not a new concept . For years every time this concpet is discussed I have tried to remind people that there is practical day to day working examples of this.
TENNIS MATCHES.
Tennis has League play and you can only play in your ranked area...... for league play. It is considered a dis service for A rated Vets to play against D level players.
ALL School Sports.
In every facet of School Sports there is a Junior and A Varsity TEAM.
As kids growing up there is league play that seperates people for very good reason. So both the experinced and inexperinced folks can both mature and enjoy their gaming experience.
We put such a hugh emphasis on the NEWBIES because we want to ensure the continuance of the game. Those who have been in control adamantly beleive we must let the new folks in every vet game because anything else will not work. Others insist new folks will not get better an learn bad habits if we relagate them out of vet servers. There are as usual merits to these arguments. But I counter with the Vet's deserve the chance to play competitive VET only games. People should earn their way into the Vet only server the same way people do it in regular competitive play in Tennis. What that criteria would be for access I can not say.. Maybe require hours of play to move from the NEWBIE level to the access to the Next level. How you would move and have access could be based on Rank... if rankings could be fixed. Number of hours of play doesn't certainly mean some one is good but the majority wuld have a clue .
I will leave the debaters to figure out how people would work through the Ranks or how people would progress to the next server. I would suggest that there always be an all open server for the time of day when there are not enough people to support several games.
While I do not have empirical data to back this up.... latley it seems to me the games are starting to get bigger and bigger like they used to be when the game first came out. We should be encouraging people to have small games so we can have more people who have tried their hand at commanding. Hard to ask people to command games when the Skill and stacking qutoients can be pretty intimadating. We have unintentionally trained vets not to bother to command during prime time cause the Hoighly competitive player won't give them the time of day most games. This would alleviate some of that too..
Okay I am done ranting for now... I will save this post and send it back out in another year when the topic comes up again.
"If I could remove all the people from the earth I think are stupid... would I be the only one left ? "Sunt superis sua iura -ovidI do want to clarify as some of the concerns seem to be that the skill level of the open server will drop if all the squadies dable on their server, this can not be true, for this to occur two things must happen that are nearly impossible.
First the generallization tha squaded players are more skilled than mercs. We all know this is not true across the board. Squades have every skill level from super newb to grizzled old vet, just like the mercs do.
Second squaded players would never play on the open server. This we know won't happen. We all have friends who are mercs, we all have times when we want to play the style of game on the open server and not play the highly competative team based aspect.
This isn't a division of skill like a novice only or inter only server, we know this doesn't work, its been tried and is currently available and nearly never used.
Instead its a ROUGH division of play style. Just as an mmo has a pvp or pve play style allegiance too has different play styles.
First the generallization tha squaded players are more skilled than mercs. We all know this is not true across the board. Squades have every skill level from super newb to grizzled old vet, just like the mercs do.
Second squaded players would never play on the open server. This we know won't happen. We all have friends who are mercs, we all have times when we want to play the style of game on the open server and not play the highly competative team based aspect.
This isn't a division of skill like a novice only or inter only server, we know this doesn't work, its been tried and is currently available and nearly never used.
Instead its a ROUGH division of play style. Just as an mmo has a pvp or pve play style allegiance too has different play styles.
"Someday, We'll Find It... The Rainbow Connection." ~ Kermit
Don't forget, you can't use hiders on the Squad Server. It's inevitable that squaded players will want to whore from time to time, in which case they need to go to the open servers.TheVoid37 wrote:QUOTE (TheVoid37 @ Jul 26 2007, 06:38 PM) Second squaded players would never play on the open server. This we know won't happen. We all have friends who are mercs, we all have times when we want to play the style of game on the open server and not play the highly competative team based aspect.