Flying corkscrew

Jimen · Post by **Jimen** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:37 am

Problem is, QFs have to be carried with you from the moment you leave base, meaning the only time to have them in your inventory is if you're planning to dogfight against ints and nothing else. And there are very few good reasons to attack ints when you're flying a fig.

Andarvi · Post by **Andarvi** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:36 am

I find QF3 quite effective at killing nans on a bomb run tbh..

juckto · Post by **juckto** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:17 am

Death3D wrote:QUOTE (Death3D @ Dec 21 2009, 10:10 AM) Rename and sticky this, please?

Nah.

Koln · Post by **Koln** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:44 pm

Andarvi wrote:QUOTE (Andarvi @ Dec 21 2009, 09:36 AM) I find QF3 quite effective at killing nans on a bomb run tbh..

I still find aiming more effective

.

Seymor · Post by **Seymor** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:17 pm

QF3 does less damage (even with increased firing...), chaffs more easily (and since you have more missiles in the air this is substantial), has shorter range, runs out faster (since you fire so quickly), has a lower maximum lock.

A seeker missile at a low lock is around the equivalent of a full lock quickfire, except it does more damage when it hits and will take slightly longer to refire.

Yeah. Those quickfires are useful.

Drizzo · Post by **Drizzo** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:10 pm

If you use quickfires incorrectly, then yes, the above will become true and seekers will be more effective.

If you use quickfires correctly, then they are superior to seekers. QF3 v Seeker3, QF3 is better for its burst damage rather than total damage.

(Here's a free tip, don't spam your QFs. You're not supposed to)

Vortrog · Post by **Vortrog** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:40 am

Seymor wrote:QUOTE (Seymor @ Dec 22 2009, 05:17 AM) Yeah. Those quickfires are useful.

I am with Drizzo on this one, so I agree that we disagree Seymour. It comes down to what floats your boat.

The definitive and debated QF topic
http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/index...showtopic=50941

TurkeyXIII · Post by **TurkeyXIII** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:02 am

Seymor wrote:QUOTE (Seymor @ Dec 22 2009, 06:17 AM) A seeker missile at a low lock is around the equivalent of a full lock quickfire, except it does more damage when it hits and will take slightly longer to refire.

Aha, I always thought Seymor had no clue what he was talking about, now I have conclusive proof. `yp!

Seymor · Post by **Seymor** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:37 am

Code: Select all

Missile : Base Damage : DM
qf1/2 : 40 : DM=14
qf3 : 50 : DM=14

seek1/2 : 60 : DM=04
seek3 : 60 : DM=04

df1 : 100 : DM=04
df2 : 125 : DM=04
df3 : 150 : DM=04

Let's take a look at those DM's

Code: Select all

DM : light: medium: heavy: utility : Shield
04 : 1.00 : 1.00 : 1.33 : 0.50 : 1.00
14 : 1.00 : 0.85 : 0.25 : 0.25 : 0.50

One of these things is not like the other.
One of these things is total crap.
Can you tell which thing is not totally crappy
By the time I finish my song?

C'mon Class, together.

Let's see what the real damage is

Code: Select all

Missile : Lt dam : Med Dam: Hvy Dam: Utl Dam: Shield
qf1/2 : 40 : 34 : 10 : 10 : 20
qf3 : 50 : 42.5 : 12.5 : 12.5 : 25

seek1/2 : 60 : 60 : 80 : 30 : 60
seek3 : 75 : 75 :  100 : 37.5 : 75

df1 : 100 : 100 : 133 : 50 : 100
df2 : 125 : 125 : 167 : 62.5 : 125
df3 : 150 : 150 : 200 : 75 : 150

That's right. Seeker does a little under twice the damage of quickfires. That means that for every seeker that hits, Quickfire has to hit twice. Also, you can't look at me with a straight face and say that quickfire does burst damage when one dumbfires does three times the damage of a quickfire. Burst damage, hehe. Dumbfire 3 has some tracking too (Not good tracking, but some).

Everything is light hull right?

Code: Select all

Fighters : Light hull : With Shield
Interceptors : Medium Hull : No Shield
Stealth Fighters : Light Hull : No Shield
Scout : Light Hull : With Shield

So quickfires do reduced damage to interceptors and highly reduced damage to fighters and scouts shield. It seems that Quickfires only do full damage to stealth fighters. I will now concede that if you are having trouble dogfighting stealth fighters in your fighter, that firing quickfires at yourself to create a shield that might absorb incoming hunters is a viable option. You might also want to try flying in squares; a challenge, I know.

Let's see how well it can get to it's target..

Code: Select all

Missile: lifespan: cm resistance: acceleration: turn radius: mass
qf1 : 5 : 0.90 : 78 : 6 : 0.5
qf2 : 5 : 1.15 : 86 : 8 : 0.5
qf3 : 5 : 1.40 : 94 : 10 : 0.5
seek1 : 6 : 1.00 : 60 : 0.96 : 1.0
seek2 : 6 : 1.25 : 60 : 1.13 : 1.0
seek3 : 7 : 1.50 : 60 : 1.31 : 1.0
df1 : 4 : 3 : 100 : 0.61 : 1.0
df2 : 4.5 : 3 : 100 : 0.70 : 1.0
df3 : 4.5 : 3 : 100 : 0.79 : 1.0

So, you are going to be firing at greater than twice the rate (and therefore have twice as many missiles in the air to get the chaff check) and your quickfires have a crappy cm resistance. Yeah, this is going to work swell. Not only that, they also turn insane so if they do get chaffed, theres not going to be any accidental hits. Only good things here about quickfires is the low amount of time spent in the air.

Code: Select all

Sig modifier loading Quickfire: 0.75
Sig modifier loading Seeker: 0.5

Seeker wins here. It's not entirely relevant but it's noticable.

Alright.

Vortog: They're good against ints? You think doing half the damage of seekers and a third of the damage of dumbfires is good against ints? You think increased susceptibility to chaffing is good against ints?

Andarvi: Nans on a bomb run? You find that doing a third of the damage of seekers and a fifth of the damage of dumbfires is good against nans on a bomb run? You think those quickfires are also good against the _BOMBER_ too or are you just gonna kill all the nans?

Drizzo: Burst Damage? Really? Are you having that much trouble hitting with dumbfires?

Vortog: You can agree with yourself to do whatever you want to do. I however, have lots of shiny numbers and examples to support my argument, which usually makes things more compelling. Have fun agreeing to agree.

TurkeyXIII: You caught me, kind of.

Could somebody calculate the maximum speed that quickfires, seekers and dumbfires get upto at the end of their flight? It has consequences on how easy it is to simply run away from the missiles.

I'm gonna study now.

Drizzo · Post by **Drizzo** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:49 am

Seymor the [prominent] difference between you and I is you use numbers, I use gameplay experience. [Well actually we have nothing in common]

If I say something, it's usually because I can prove it. So set up a testing environment and I'll gladly show you how QF outclasses Seeker and the few instances where Seeker is superior.

Well to be honest I could use numbers to prove what I mean, but frankly I don't feel like putting that much effort into proving someone wrong on the forums.