Vaughn Planning and concept

Mordechaj · Post by **Mordechaj** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:09 am

Mordikai wrote:QUOTE (Mordikai @ Oct 5 2006, 08:26 AM) but you fail to see that spaming them wouldnt do anything useful... gah... if i could just put it into test

if someoen was going to go back and forth the first load of mines would disappear by the time he comes back with more plus the fact that putting these ships in the same sector as the enemy would mean certain death would eb another reason they wouldnt spam them

if they last 5 minutes, and he is spamming his home sector to protect his garr, they could overlap. a lot of them.

if they last 30 - 60 sec (and that's long, considering how long prox lasts), he could spam only one place with his whole cargo, and by the time he get's back they would go away.

btw. the same philosophy (fast and agile) fits to raiders/vikings, and i can not see a major diference between them and the rest of the pirates, but that's really offtopic, so never mind. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

Mordikai · Post by **Mordikai** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:54 am

as i keep saying 2-3 minutes... why would he spam his garrison unless theres a bomber coming anyway or maybe to camp an aeleph preventing sfs/sbs gettign through?

gah keep trying to talk to you 2 in game so i can understand your reasoning better... you just aint coming out fast enough with it here /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> I just cant see any reason why people would go around spamming this stuff just anywhere all the time... would be a severe waste of time

if im gonna make the mines cost money im prob just gonna scrap the whole unique ship idea and give them to all my small ships and maybe increase the effectiveness of them so that theyre actually worth the money spent on them... if i make them cost money it would completely defeat the purpose of the unique ship because the mines are not designed for the ship, the ship is designed for the mines

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:52 am

I believe I have come up with the perfect logo for this faction

guitarism · Post by **guitarism** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:43 pm

Ok. I'm going to talk very slowly, as everyone else here sees my point but you, which might be because your so new that you can't understand what i'm saying.

Your mines last 3-4 minutes.
They do low overal damage but cover a wide area.
They are only carried by a special ship

Now, that being said, here is why you should make the mines cost money, and the carrier ship free.

It will limit mine spam by forcing the commander to approve the purchase of these ships. Mine spam is bad, because your mines last a long time and will allow someone to drop an entire load of mines on say an aleph, run back to base, reload, and come back and drop more. If the mines are free that will happen. If you play against Tac, then no SF/SB will be able to get in, since they are fragile and your mines, which are sitting on top of one and other will cause that stealth to explode. If the mines are free, that above example will happen alot. If the mines are not free, it will not allow for mine spam, unless the commander forks over alot of money, in which case it would be better to just buy a caltrop.

In general, i'm against the idea of a long lasting mine that doesn't cost money. Why? Because that above situation will happen. It's Defi's dream, being able to drop a whole load, get back to base, back to the aleph before they disapear.

But why would you listen to anyone but yourself. It's your faction, do what you will with it.

Mordikai · Post by **Mordikai** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:11 pm

but youre not listening either... youre making up the mine stats yourself instead of listening to the stats im giving them... i said 2-3 minutes, its a relatively slow and fragile ship that carries them, prob no rip at all on it and the damage is far lower than youre making it out to be... a SF/SB will be able to get through a mined aeleph if they put their shields on and if they go slowly they could get through a load of stacked mines because the mines do not merge, they do damage individually, i admit its good vs sfs/sbs but so what? so are scouts /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

theres already a cost on the ship so the commander can limit them and i keep saying stacking the mines wont do @#(! except make your enemy have to slow down unless theyre dumb enough to go belting through the aeleph when agaisnt the Vaughn

seriously... im thinking about every single possibility i can... i udnerstand where youre coming from but i think your exaggerating the power of the mines and how theyll be stacked... youre not factoring in alot of things such as the enemy, the fact that going slow through mines makes the the damage almost nothing (you ever gone through a caltrop without getting damage? im sure you have... well these mines do even lower damage so it would take a fair few stacked to = a caltrop) and i think youre over estimating how much you can do in 2-3 minutes with a relatively slow ship... im just wondering if theres anything ive missed that would actually make these mines a problem?

btw with the slow speed goign through mines and shield regeneration factored in nix bombers may make these mines too minor to be useful against them

I really need noirs opinion since its his core theyre going in...

guitarism · Post by **guitarism** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:54 pm

Fine. I'm done trying to talk to this guy. He won't listen to anyone but himself god help him. I'll take a moment to point out the few glaring inaccuracies that obviously you have no clue about..

Stacked mines means that you hae cut your thrust and dumped them all out at the same time. Mines are a field, they overlap. Imagine running into a sheet of cardboard. You can get through one. Now place 20 sheets of cardboard and try and run through that. What happens. Thats your mines.

It's all well and good that your trying to get really involved, I really like it. But what I don't like is the lack of reading skill and game experience your trying to make up for with enthusiasim. It doesn't compensate. Sorry to be harsh.

If you feel you know enough about what your doing to do this, then fine, thats your call. But from where I stand, I see a bunch of glaring problems that you'll be forced to adress farther down the road.

Mordikai · Post by **Mordikai** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:06 pm

as john lennon said... 'i may be naive but im not stupid' /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

asheron2k · Post by **asheron2k** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:30 pm

Look... Guit is correct

First thing... so what if you make the ship cost money???... It doesnt even matter because noone would try to dogfight.. or even defend in it so they can just go back to base and change ship.... OMGWTFBBQ they get their money back for returning the ship safely

Last thing... There is no magic set of numbers(other than a tiny endourance) that will make a long duration mine remotely usefull that won't encourage people to stack them. There just isn't.

Rakinite · Post by **Rakinite** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:46 pm

asheron2k wrote:QUOTE (asheron2k @ Oct 5 2006, 06:30 PM) Look... Guit is correct
*and why*

Trust me, mord. The minefield is a good idea if it's not overly cheap to prevent spamm.
My suggestions for balance: 500-1k per slot's worth, but you can have two per slot.
Rebalance your mines to require the two or more to be cost-effective, and give them a long reload time, so that you need time to minespam, and if for some reason you get like 6k to spam mines with, they'll start disappearing by the time you've dropped like 3 packs worth.

Note: I read both yours and guitar's post. Remember, a minepack is FAR less effective if you travel through it at a snail's pace, so guitar, it's not a one-all solution against ships.
'Nother note: Could you give us some values? For example, Prox1 without looking it up in ICE:

Potential Damage: 400 (whatever that means)
Radius: 100 meters
Lifespan: 15 seconds
Signature: 15% of base sig

We need values, otherwise this is going to be rather... cryptic and you will be flamed for coming off as a newbie.

Edit: if the minefield was HUGE, slow reloading, long lasting, ultra expensive, ultra low to no damage, it could be used to track craft by the explosions. Just realized that, although I'm assuming you can see minefield explosions, even if you can't see what's causing them.

Mordikai · Post by **Mordikai** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:25 am

talked to noir at last /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> he says what he usually does is put a faction through a large test before it comes out so ill be able to try a few things in this... as for stats im not sure... i guess i need help with that or it will jsut be experimented with in the tests

he doesnt really seem to have an opinion... like me i think he thinks it should be tested before its judged properly