Thoughts on Sunday's Games

Tactical advice, How-to, Post-mortem, etc.
zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

Whew! So I went 2-6 on Sunday, not a great day. But all of the games were pretty close and hinged on just a couple of plays, so I feel it's worth mentioning how I felt about them. Note: I'm not posting stats. If Papsmear wanted stats on the forums, well, he has a perfectly serviceable admin account he could use ;)

Game 1: P1 v Terran, I went Belters and he went something else. Rix. Anyways this was played on some map or another. I decided to get an expansion to open up since I was anticipating Rix Exp duels, but then I saw the home exp, knew Terran was going to go hvy scouts, so I got a shipyard because that's the most natural counter to hvy scouts.

Game 2: P1 v Terran, next was Bios. I went Bios Sup (lack of rocks) and Terran went Draconium supyard. The Drac Sup was a little scary at first, but then galvs came up and we were able to just spend our time galving lt bases, taking the map, and killing any capships that strayed too far from whatever doomsquad thing Terran had going on.

Game 3: P1 v Terran, Drac vs Rix. I just had to go Drac SY after hearing about how bad it was: is it bad? Answer: yes. Those guns deal no damage.

Game 4: P1 v Terran, GT v TF. I accidentally skipped dregh and I'm not sure why. Anyways, this game was the loss that is the most on me. I didn't think enough about what to do after blowing the garrison, only really choosing to buy a TP after the garrison was gone and the bbr was moving. If I had put up a TP next to the sup at the same time the garrison fell, I think we could have been in the sector and gotten the sup to win. Nan2 + AC2 + AB2 + GT scout models is a pretty good time, and 5 AB2 + 32 KB + missile damage is enough to take out a TF sup I think. Unfortunately we took long enough (and I went for hvy bbrs instead of galvs) that TF was able to get adv figs up, and that was that.

Game 5: P1 v Terran, Giga v OH. My whole team went to the sector that I wanted them to go to and I saw Nightflame suggest that he was just going to camp the aleph forever and I was like "That's a good idea I'll just put my op in there." So with 7 pilots in a sector and having just tacitly said "camping is smart," of course 5 of them go and die in the next sector over by 1-by-1 walking into enemy figs. Letting the op build in that sector meant I had to figure out what to do with the miners who just walked in there, which basically meant that instead of getting 4 rocks I got like 1.75 rocks worth of helium before they had to bail and go somewhere else. That was a huge tempo loss. Then there was a 50-50 mixup that I missed: Terran had the choice to push an op high or low. I guessed he would push low and pushed my op high. Then it turned out he had pushed high. If I had instead sent my miners low, we'd have had lxy figs up on time and been working on the end-game stuff while defending with gat3/df3 lxy figs and galving, but instead we lost some money and a lot of time so ended up having to defend with gat2/df2 adv figs. Also, I need to spend more time being vocal about the stuff I want done. It's mostly exhausting work though, I'd rather just shut up and move cons places.

Game 6: P1 v Nightflame. This was IC vs Belters. This game was... ugh. I started this game by saying "what do you want to fly?" Ryu said "Rainbow!" and I said "ok." Then Weed said "shipyard!" and I said "sure." He might have said corvettes. I dunno. Doesn't matter. So I'm partway through making it happen and we see a tac go up. Weed says "they went tac we should push something there." I say "ok, we'll push this shipyard." We had 8 or 9 people on our team, only 6 showed up on the bomb run, of which two were flying enh figs. I literally asked, "who has KB we need gunners" and Ryu said "I have 0 kb and can't gun" and flies a fig on the bomb run. I dunno guys it's these little things.

Game 7: I went Omicron Hive, we got mini3 hvy ints, and weren't able to walk a sup one sector or get an HTT run going. I dunno man.

Game 8: I went Phoenix, got a @#(!ton of money, and then something happened and we lost. Oh, it was an HTT run. I remember it now because I saw it come in with like one nan and was all "oh lol this is going to be amusing we're going to shoot it down real quick and then have to fight to clear the base, I might as well get a backup sup." But then it was just me until the ints were close enough that I had to make a move or the base was just going to get camped, at which point Terran showed up, and everyone else complained about the lack of sup rip. I probably should have gotten a backup sup earlier.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
Vortrog
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Post by Vortrog »

Game 8: I was the one who asked for a home rip and got suitably ribbed out for not noticing tele going up at op.
Post this though, I must have been the 4th Horseman of the apocalypse. There is a certain irony in having our forward sup htt'd without a rip to it.
Alas, in future, I will ensure that for you, Night and Fire who push for map control at the expense of tech rips, that I probe adjacent sectors to your 'naked' tac's / Sups / Garrison. My fault really.
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zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

The op went up at the tele, not the other way around. Which is probably why you didn't think we had a homerip: you saw that there were no bases at teleports, you saw an op con at a teleport flying, you saw a tp con flying to a sector that didn't have a base in it, and thought "oh p1 is expanding with an op and tp but we need a homerip." What you didn't see was where those cons were going or the build orders.

Which brings up something that I personally find amusing: cadet taught everyone that they should be on the command wing because you get the notifications of orders to cons on the command wing, but even still no one seems to notice con orders in the chat except when they're commanding. Things to keep in mind for Alleg2's HUD design I guess ;)

As a general rule of thumb though, I don't think tech rips are as necessary as you make them out to be. Suppose, for example, we had been an expansion team. Does having a rip at the expansion when they HTT it help us defend it in any way? It's like the argument about home TPs as bios: what is my team doing in the first five minutes of the game where they're getting podded in situations where no one's around to pick them up? Yes, it's faster to spend 30s tping then 30s walking than 2 minutes walking, but even faster than that is having your buddy just go 5s out of their way to pick you up. And secondly, if there's a large number of pods (or really any number of pods) at a teleport as bios, someone can just... rip to the teleport and pick everyone up.

Also people obsess with homerips being in the same sector too. I've seen people call a 4k rip a "homerip" while a teleport that's 1k from an aleph that's 2k from a green door isn't.

Plus you're just one of a million people who have been like "We don't have a homerip" for me to respond with either "it's building in such and such a sector," or "it's in such and such a sector." If it makes you feel any better, Terran once said "it's been 30 minutes and I just now noticed we don't have a homerip" when we had a homerip lol. This was like, Saturday I think. Or last sunday. It happens with frightening regularity whether or not I point out where the homerip is, so I've just sort of... stopped bothering.
Last edited by zombywoof on Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
Vortrog
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:00 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD, Australia

Post by Vortrog »

Oh, and LOL the Phoenix and Trans chat observations during that last game. If you have pointy ears (like spock), that faction is yours!
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zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

BTW sumv next time go with "the person on the trans is trans so we're fine." Trans is an adjective not a noun ;)
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
Nightflame
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Post by Nightflame »

QUOTE Game 5: P1 v Terran, Giga v OH. My whole team went to the sector that I wanted them to go to and I saw Nightflame suggest that he was just going to camp the aleph forever and I was like "That's a good idea I'll just put my op in there." So with 7 pilots in a sector and having just tacitly said "camping is smart," of course 5 of them go and die in the next sector over by 1-by-1 walking into enemy figs. Letting the op build in that sector meant I had to figure out what to do with the miners who just walked in there, which basically meant that instead of getting 4 rocks I got like 1.75 rocks worth of helium before they had to bail and go somewhere else. That was a huge tempo loss. Then there was a 50-50 mixup that I missed: Terran had the choice to push an op high or low. I guessed he would push low and pushed my op high. Then it turned out he had pushed high. If I had instead sent my miners low, we'd have had lxy figs up on time and been working on the end-game stuff while defending with gat3/df3 lxy figs and galving, but instead we lost some money and a lot of time so ended up having to defend with gat2/df2 adv figs. Also, I need to spend more time being vocal about the stuff I want done. It's mostly exhausting work though, I'd rather just shut up and move cons places.[/quote]
Ran through 5 prox without real action coming through. :\ If this is the game I'm thinking of, we more or less had the opening fight won by the end, but there wasn't anyone near enough to ram the op in time. I only got my pattie to ~1.5k before it started in. From there it was just bad relative econ, not getting enh figs until 2 minutes before hvy ints.

QUOTE Game 6: P1 v Nightflame. This was IC vs Belters. This game was... ugh. I started this game by saying "what do you want to fly?" Ryu said "Rainbow!" and I said "ok." Then Weed said "shipyard!" and I said "sure." He might have said corvettes. I dunno. Doesn't matter. So I'm partway through making it happen and we see a tac go up. Weed says "they went tac we should push something there." I say "ok, we'll push this shipyard." We had 8 or 9 people on our team, only 6 showed up on the bomb run, of which two were flying enh figs. I literally asked, "who has KB we need gunners" and Ryu said "I have 0 kb and can't gun" and flies a fig on the bomb run. I dunno guys it's these little things.[/quote]
Yeah, that SY push could have really sucked. For some reason I started killers when I saw the SY con, not a spare tac.

QUOTE Game 7: I went Omicron Hive, we got mini3 hvy ints, and weren't able to walk a sup one sector or get an HTT run going. I dunno man.[/quote]
Three mini2 hvy ints vs a two nan ac2/ac3 bomber. I got picked off a second before spiking a scout through a xnan, not sure what the other two were doing. Might've worked if our three scouts had been any use, dunno. FWIW, the one HTT run we made would probably have been game winning with just one more nan.

QUOTE Game 8: I went Phoenix, got a @#(!ton of money, and then something happened and we lost. Oh, it was an HTT run. I remember it now because I saw it come in with like one nan and was all "oh lol this is going to be amusing we're going to shoot it down real quick and then have to fight to clear the base, I might as well get a backup sup." But then it was just me until the ints were close enough that I had to make a move or the base was just going to get camped, at which point Terran showed up, and everyone else complained about the lack of sup rip. I probably should have gotten a backup sup earlier.[/quote]
Sup, green door facing, 3.6k straight run from the aleph against an uneyed mini3/nan2 HTT run? That base was kinda screwed.

QUOTE Game 8: I was the one who asked for a home rip and got suitably ribbed out for not noticing tele going up at op.
Post this though, I must have been the 4th Horseman of the apocalypse. There is a certain irony in having our forward sup htt'd without a rip to it.
Alas, in future, I will ensure that for you, Night and Fire who push for map control at the expense of tech rips, that I probe adjacent sectors to your 'naked' tac's / Sups / Garrison. My fault really.[/quote]
Actually, it was probed! That was a game of strong players. Being so, one of my guys deprobed just before the run. And then walked 2k back to the op while my HTT was being rammed at >100mps. :glare: Should've yelled at doom to stop ramming, but I really wanted to go through at max speed and cap before you got more adv tech. The max speed bit worked out. Terran barely scratched me, and only because I slowed to dodge a couple dumbfires.

Some of the stats, P1's games 1-8:









And my belts cruiser rush game for good measure:
cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Feb 27 2012, 01:40 AM) The big brass balls award goes to Nightflame for mutinying spidey (and succeeding).
cashto
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Post by cashto »

phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Apr 16 2019, 12:44 PM) BTW sumv next time go with "the person on the trans is trans so we're fine." Trans is an adjective not a noun ;)
Yeah sumv, get it right: "the con the trans is on is trans". This isn't Spanish, you can't just go around slapping an el or a la in front of an adjective to make it a noun ...
Globemaster_III wrote:QUOTE (Globemaster_III @ Jan 11 2018, 11:27 PM) as you know i think very little of cashto, cashto alway a flying low pilot, he alway flying a trainer airplane and he rented
SumVeritas
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Post by SumVeritas »

cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Apr 17 2019, 12:08 AM) Yeah sumv, get it right: "the con the trans is on is trans". This isn't Spanish, you can't just go around slapping an el or a la in front of an adjective to make it a noun ...
I think i said that "there's a trans on the trans, so don't worry" or something like that.
Guess P1 is trying to bait me into saying something like "english is not a language" or "why should i bother with barbaric tongues" or the like.
Duckwarrior wrote:QUOTE (Duckwarrior @ Mar 8 2017, 09:38 PM) Desert eagle .50 cal from beechcraft bonanza as fly poor people over doctor son beechcraft bonanza trump beef texas ping pong boat 400k doctor son beefsteak good texas cali donald trump hilary dumocrats
zombywoof
Posts: 6522
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Post by zombywoof »

Nah, just trying to politely say that the way you phrased it was a little dehumanizing to transpeople at large, and provide an example of how you can say the same thing without accidentally stepping on someone's toes.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
SumVeritas
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Post by SumVeritas »

Are you implying that ppl=/=things, i'm shocked
Duckwarrior wrote:QUOTE (Duckwarrior @ Mar 8 2017, 09:38 PM) Desert eagle .50 cal from beechcraft bonanza as fly poor people over doctor son beechcraft bonanza trump beef texas ping pong boat 400k doctor son beefsteak good texas cali donald trump hilary dumocrats
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