Qualified Women Continue to Scare Mediocre Men

Non-Allegiance related. High probability of spam. Pruned regularly.
zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

https://twitter.com/johannarickne/statu ... 8995292160

There's something about high-achieving women that seems to paint a picture in people's head of unfriendly, cold, hard-to-work-with...

Which is funny because the only complaint I had about my female classmates who worked their ass off to get As was that they weren't ever really interested in discussing the topics of the class. They liked to do the work and get out, but tbh that's true among all the high achievers I've met. "It's just a grade we can just do the stuff to get the grade and then we'll have the grade and then the degree" is, to me, the actual most boring way to approach school ever.

A lot of what, for example, my engineer friends do in their day-to-day job is stuff they learned literally on the job and the opportunity to get a couple of certificates would have served them far better than actually attending a university. The only aspects of the university experience I think genuinely mattered for most of my friends was access to resources for projects and occasionally being forced to do those projects.

I'm enjoying my experience here at UCSB mostly, but it's still very frustrating to be surrounded by people who are more interested in the grade than what's actually going on. On the other hand, a big part of my quantum mechanics class is "so if you apply this technique you get this differential equation. The solutions are found on this table here." Like, cool! Finally!

One of these days I'm going to just completely revamp the educational system. Just a few things I'd like to change:

1- Techniques should be learned in the course of answering questions. Example: arithmetic shouldn't be taught as "math," but rather as the solution to problems like "if I want to buy a toy that costs $15 and I can make $1.50 per mowed lawn, how many lawns do I have to mow?" If you do it that way you can probably get a group of kids to learn how multiplication works in a couple of months at most.

2- There should be more emphasis on integrating the subjects. No stand-alone art classes. If you want to teach artists how to do, say, arithmetic, let them do a project where they "draw" the multiplication tables or something like that. If the kids don't want to do art, and would rather do something else, who $#@!ing cares.

3- Middle school should be abolished and replaced with a much more loosely structured system. Puberty is hardcore ass. Letting people spend time reading books in the library for a couple of years or play around in the woodshop or whatever isn't going to put them significantly behind in their education. Let it just be a couple year break from a formal school structure. I don't know what I would want this to look like yet.

4- Give high schoolers much more say in what they study, and integrate the $#@!in' subjects. Diversify the offerings. If I want to work on cars, then there's a) math I need to know, b) history that's going to be interesting to me, c) engineering and scientific concepts that are important, and d) it'll be good (and fun) for me to communicate about that. So try to build high school in such a way that if what I really want to do is autoshop then my English course is me writing about cars, my History course is me studying about cars, and my math class is me learning how to do the math necessary to cars. Leverage that into teaching me how these different subjects work, and try to bring a little more of that intersectional goodness out of it, i.e. "cars have always been a status symbol but the Model-T and later the events of the 1950s lowered the price of access to cars which lead to" blah blah blah.

We also need to change the way teachers pay works. I'm thinking something like $50-60k a year to start with a master's degree equivalent from a normal school. To mitigate the costs of living, I'd like to see the government (for public schools, private schools can do whatever the $#@! they want because they're just busy charging rich people out the nose... seriously they charge $15k/yr/student for Jesuit, 150% what the government spends on students... but the government is "inefficient" right? :P ) put in programs of guaranteed loans, etc. for teachers. Things like the government matching down payments on houses for tenured teachers, paying student debt for teachers...

Could you imagine how much easier it would be to be a public school teacher if you made a little more, the down payment on your house was matched by the government (10% of a $400,000 home is $40k which is not unreasonable savings at $50k a year for about 5 years. A 2 bedroom at $2000/month is $24000 a year, between the $15000 20-hour-week-minimum-wage and the $50k/year teacher salary, which comes down to a total household pre-tax income of $65000 for a married couple, about $49,000 net pay, take of $24000 a year for housing, that leaves you with $25000 a year, earmark $8k of that a year and you still have $17k a year to move around for things like a car, food, etc. and in 5 years you have your down payment)? And if you're single it's even easier: you can get a smaller house, you're only responsible for half the housing costs...

It seems expensive, right? But seriously, the numbers work out very nicely. The median teacher salary is $60k currently, with the median teacher having worked for 14 years. That's a total compensation of $840,000 and bumping that up to $880,000 is just a 5% raise. FIVE PERCENT! That's like the typical merit raise?! But it comes in a form that's immediately useful to a new teacher and creates a situation that (hopefully) convinces them to put roots in a community. As for credentialing programs, the idea that the State of California doesn't have a program by which you agree to work N years as a public school teacher (call it 15) in exchange for us covering the cost of your CSU normal school education and we guarantee you a job somewhere (you might not like where) is frankly ridiculous. If it works for the US military, I cannot imagine why it wouldn't work for other sectors. We could be funding the creation of a generation of public servants who enter mid-paying jobs (like social worker, public school teacher) simply by agreeing to subsidize their education?

Of course, this all assumes we won't go to "utterly free to user education" which... is its own thing btw. When I crunch the numbers on that it really pisses me off, actually.

Seriously [url=https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/researc ... nings.html]the data shows that we're just investing.[/i] It's just an investment. The average person will earn more than $600,000 over the course of their lifetime simply by going to university. Over a career from age 20-70 (so 50 year career), the mean high school graduate will make $900,000, the mean university graduate will make $1.5 million. The high school graduate averages to about $18k a year (this number needs to rise, FYI) and the university graduate makes $30k a year (this number too is absurdly low) on average over the course of their 50 year career. The HS grad pays ~$2k a year in taxes, the college grad pays ~$5.

Quick. $3k * 50 = $150,000, right? $35k (average tuitition/fees for private college) * 4 = $140,000. Last time I checked, $150,000-$140,000 = $10,000, which means that just from the very nature of providing that education the government will, using the current tax rates, on average make $10k per student it sends to college. Yet you have all these $#@!ing Elzams going "BUT FREE COLLEGE IS BLAH BLAH BLAH." I feel like having the government "behave like a business" (i.e. making long-term investments, not whatever profit-driven bull@#(! the Metz' think it means) genuinely means "free college for all, incentives to go into post-grad programs with financial incentives to then use that expertise to work for the government."

The question of course then becomes, where do we pay for all of this? Well, my friends, Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez' tax plan isn't even necessary here. 51 million students in US public schools, plus 15 million in university students. Trimming the US military budget from its FY 2019 $718 billion budget to, say, the $518 spent by China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, India, France, the UK and Japan would free up $200 billion. What does this pay for?

The average cost of tuition and fees for US public schools currently stands at $10,000 a year. 1.5*10^6 students times $10^5 is 1.5*10^11, or $150 billion per year. As has been previously demonstrated, the sum of the average expected rate of return on this investment is approximately $10,000 per student, so $2500 per student per year of 4 year university, or $2.5*10^4 * 1.5*10^6 = $25*10^10. An investment of $150 billion gives us $25 billion for a rate of return of 1.7%. Not exciting, to be sure, but I can't imagine investment in bombs is doing us much better.

Tl/dr:

all of the plans that "liberals" want that are "expensive" are actually net-revenue generating, and even if they were not, are probably more efficient RoI for the government than most of the other bull@#(! that the government spends money on leading to longer-term savings simply by moving money around inside the budget away from things like the military or random concrete walls metal fences no seriously it's a wall but it's made of steel slats like a fence whatever the $#@! the Cheeto in Chief is talking about.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

Also, if men could stop being so fragile about their mediocrity *stares at Elzam and Metz from across the room* that would be great.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
peet
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Post by peet »

At least a good set up to lure people from rants to offtopic :D
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cashto
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Post by cashto »

Goddamnit don't make me bring back the P1 TLDR account.

Lot of ground covered here, I'll reply more later I guess. But yeah, at least someone's trying to break the cycle of "Elzam makes disingenuous comment, everyone points out how disingenuous Elzam's comment was, Elzam follows up by making an even more disingenuous comment, repeat until everyone is satisfied with the outcome of the exchange" that's currently going on in Rants.
Globemaster_III wrote:QUOTE (Globemaster_III @ Jan 11 2018, 11:27 PM) as you know i think very little of cashto, cashto alway a flying low pilot, he alway flying a trainer airplane and he rented
zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

You don't actually have to read it if you're not interested. I won't be offended. I'm used to people ignoring the things I have to say ;)
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
Mastametz
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Post by Mastametz »

Lol. There aren't many men on my radar let alone women. and nothing anywhere in-between.

and I didn't actually read the OP I just knew I would be mentioned because you're so threatened by me (as you should be) and I saw my name when I scanned it

p.s. I've also never been scared of mexicans "takin mer jerb" so you're really barkin up the wrong tree. I'm threatened by nobody.

It's honestly pathetic you still haven't figured that out by now. The only thing fragile here is your fake femininity.

also you've voluntarily posted a ton of essays on the forum/discord lately because you apparently have nothing else better to do.
Maybe you should like get a job to take up more of your time and not just use your parents/society as a safety net while you spam the internet with your feelings about how you think the real working world works based on your college education experience.
Last edited by Mastametz on Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Papsmear
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Post by Papsmear »

The teaching concepts you mention has been taught for 1000s of years in the trades.
We apply mathematics and sciences in our daily work routines.
For this to actually work you need an interested apprentice and a journeyman who is good at explaining how and why we do what we do.
On a side note I'm been telling my nephew for quite a while to explore the trades and he started his apprenticeship last week.
After his first week I asked him what he thought and he said he was loving it, making money and learning.
In 3-4 years he will have his master;s plumbers license and a way to make money for the remainder of his life all while being paid to learn.
Not a bad educational system in my opinion.
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zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

I completely agree, to be honest. I have a big dream of a multi-faculty system where kids have carpentry class, metalshop, autoshop, computers, math, english, etc. etc. where teenagers are permitted to roam for basically as long as they need to find something. Essentially what COLLEGE is lmao, but at a level appropriate for people of that age, you know? And it should be a very large intermixing system where you graduate at different rates in different fields, so there's no real "high school diploma," there's "high school certified in English" or, if you prefer, "Ready for apprenticeship by a journeyman who's looking to become a master in the field of {blank}."

Which is pretty much how the college system is designed. It's a big montessori school. But they should also have trades in there for SURE because those are a) really, really, really important for people to know as we use up more and more of the world's resources, b) a pretty ideal occupation to work at while you're busy learning how to be good enough to do something else, because it's always needed by someone and is a skilled labor and for MANY of the trades you can do freelancing to work exactly as much as you like, (I think tenforward, for example, does his own computer repair business).
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
zombywoof
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 am
Location: Over the Rainbow

Post by zombywoof »

Incidentally, the merging of trades into "traditional grade school curriculum" is a HUGE part of the reason why I want to run for office some day, as well as basically just stealing you guys of the methods you teach and applying them to academia. I think it is a brilliant idea. If I'm in office I plan to start asking people exactly how that works and ask to shadow it a little more.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
BackTrak
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Post by BackTrak »

As an old bastard, I'd love to see formal public education end at 16 with a mandatory 4 year unpaid civil service stint. Optional military service. Roads, Infrastructure, Trades (labor / apprentice work), Basic IT, law enforcement, etc. You pick a field, you learn on the job, you can rotate to something else at the end of the year. After 4 years (age 20) you have the option of 100% totally free college (you paid for it with your labor), or continue with your trade. The system is cost neutral. The kids in the trades that don't continue to the free college offset the costs for those who do. Everyone else benefits from an actual skilled population, not to mention some of these pot holes get filled. We remove demand for unskilled labor which makes "build that wall" die on the vine. Have you seen some of the stuff that WPA built back in the day? You can still enjoy it... (when the government isn't shut down anyway).

I would start implementing this with "work for college" programs at the state level that give kids a non-penalized option to leave high school early to go into trades while giving them credit towards college vouchers. Kids going this route do not get a GED, they get a regular high school diploma at the end of 2 years of work in an approved trade/business. As more people take this route, just keep adding benefits to the kids going the trades route, then make it law.

Imagine a work force that not only can build a house, but can also set a broken leg, and pour a level curb. Ya know... just like those WWII greatest generation vets. Except we don't need the war. We just need to quit wasting everyone's time with state funded youth warehousing. Want STEM? Go intern at GE or General Dynamics. It's on the list. If you're a clown, you get fired. Welcome to the real world! :)

Having had an extremely poor high-school experience myself and watching my kids get crap memorization and home work assignments for Algebra that can be completed on-line by doing 1+2 = ? tells me nothing's changing for the better. I'm not even kidding. They have to spend 20 minutes on this math website (https://www.khanacademy.org/) doing tests, and they can just do simple math ones. No one checks and no one cares. And my school district is funded and fairly standard for the area.

P1, you can have my vote if you will remove this silly requirement that kids start school at 7:00am (mine get up at 5am to ride the bus, WTF?) Seriously, every study on the subject shows how grades go up and accidents go down with a later school start time.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... -for-teens
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