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Interceptor Changes (NON BELTERS):
Thrust to 300 (350)
Fuel to 13 (15)

There have been complaints about the nimbleness of various interceptors, complaints that go to the core of the gameplay: mainly that TF ints (and other small ints) are jumping around so much that some of your bullets will slip through them. This is... concerning. Unfortunately, it's not within my power to fix the root issue (which is network code written in 1999), so I have to figure out how BEST to approach this problem. Generally, I feel as though the range of interceptors is about right so as the thrust goes down, the fuel also needs to go down to compensate. Ints are now going to be *faster,* but over *shorter distances.* People flying for commanders who put ops in the middle of nowhere are advised to bootiny accordingly.


Belters changes:

Fighter Thrust to 810 (1000)

Waaaay back in DN/early CC days, Belters was considered one of the best factions in the game on the power of their insane bombing. Part of this was their ability to utilize fignans effectively, ramming incredibly well. Weed, in his infinite wisdom, decided to nerf Belters by reducing their thrust-to-weight ratio from the DN 16 to 15, but the change also meant that Belters figs had more use from boosters because the weight went from 64 to 50. Phantom032 came along and screwed with that so now the thrust-to-weight ratio for Belters figs became 22, and as a result, Belters is absurdly strong. I'm putting the fig thrust-to-weight ratio at 18 and trying that out.

SF, Adv SF sidethrust values set to .75 (1)

Yeah, belts SFS are still 2 stronk. Let's see if this helps the problem at all before I bring out the actual nerf bat.

TF changes:

Scout length to 17.125 (13.7)

TF scouts are currently dominating games and something needs to be done about that. As far as I can tell the biggest problem with TF scouts is that while they should be losing 1v1s against figs, their small size is allowing them to easily win those matchups. I'm aware that their scouts aren't actually smaller than some of the other scouts in the game (Drac scouts in particular are tiny spheres), but what sets TF scouts apart is the fact that they have 2 gats which represents a 100% bonus in firepower. Teamwork and a pack of TF scouts should still be very dangerous on miner offense, but hopefully we'll see less of the "one scout flies to sector, pods all d, kills miner, flies away" crap that's been going on recently.

Rix Changes:

SR scout mass to 60 (40)

Rix is similarly dominant to TF at the moment and a big part of that is how difficult it is for fig factions to chase down SR scouts. This change will reward more careful steering but punish people who get caught out. It'll also make it harder for SR scouts to pop into visual range and then end up right on the miner immediately. This change is ONLY for basic SR scouts, all other scouts are unchanged. Yes, Terran, you can still durdle with your hvy scouts.

Some interesting changes
I still think that Bios research time should be slightly lowered

Bios is a problem faction but in order to fix them, well, yeah. Lowered research time would just make them even more of a headache... really the problem is they're dead in the water unless they find mini2, but if they find mini2 they become insanely powerful.

phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 2 2017, 02:31 PM) Bios is a problem faction but in order to fix them, well, yeah. Lowered research time would just make them even more of a headache... really the problem is they're dead in the water unless they find mini2, but if they find mini2 they become insanely powerful.

And it's stuff like that that makes the gap between commanders wider.

I mean I don't know what you want me to say Raum. Do you want me to write out a step-by-step how to beat Bios in ~70% of games? Or do you want me to gear this core to the lowest common denominator? What happens if I do that and Dome or P32 decide to command a game?

Contrary to popular belief, the powers that be don't bite if you actually just ask them questions.

But truth be told, Bios has a wide variety of unfavorable matchups, and its favorable matchups hinge on getting good rocks. Bios almost never beats giga, belters, or rix and those are the three best factions in the game. With Giga, just out-expand, corner them, build specs, and crush them underneath the weight of your econ. With Belters, shove bases next to theirs and then shove 150mps bbrs at their expansion until it dies. With Rix, rush a sup, harass their miners with gat2 enh figs, then get a TP close to their exp and bomb them with AC2.

On a real note, the solution for Bios I envision is this:

Raise the price of their techbases to 25k, increase the capacity on their scouts so basic scouts carry 2 probes (and prox, etc., while also increasing the other levels of scouts accordingly), and let the problem sort itself out. Early game bios should be about careful-ass scout use and playing super defensive by probing. $#@!ing. everything. and following up by holding alephs using crap tons of prox and mk1 tech. Use cloaking, low-sig bombers to clear base threats to your techbase. Then as your tech comes online, start pushing out little by little. I'd also lean towards cutting Bios paydays in half.

Problem is, the majority of pilots flying today aren't smart enough to actually do what needs to be done to make that work. When was the last time you saw three scouts working together on miner offense, let ALONE an un-solicited probe network that would detect a frigate with all guns blazing (not to mention an actual bomb run trying to stay unhidden)?

phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 3 2017, 12:01 AM) On a real note, the solution for Bios I envision is this:

Raise the price of their techbases to 25k

I agree with most of what you wrote about BIOS except the excerpt above.
Their research time is already too slow compared to the other factions.
How does raising the cost of a techbase help them out?
That will slow them down even more.
I could see a compromise of raising the cost of a techbase if their research time was somewhat faster than it is now.

BIOS is pretty much forced to go expansion to have any chance of winning a game.
Faster research time would probably make supremacy & tactical an option, where, if chosen your team might actually win.

phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 2 2017, 11:31 AM) Really the problem is they're dead in the water unless they find mini2, but if they find mini2 they become insanely powerful.

How do people feel about removing mini2 from treasures?

I think it solves that particular Bios (and Belts) "luck" problem, plus is a reasonable econ/time nerf to exp overall, which is fully competitive with the other two techpaths but is far cheaper than both of them (there's less to buy in order to have competitive ships, plus He Yield to help pay for it).

Bios's entire reason to exist is this idea that you can sacrifice early-game power for late-game superiority -- if you can get to it. So from that point of view, reducing Bios research times is just Spunkbalancing, to me.

Edit: I also don't get the point of raising bios techbases to 25k. This requires two extra rocks to be mined before they can launch a techbase, which pushes their entire development out probably another 3-4 minutes. I don't think it makes sense to first identify the problem with Bios is that they are too weak early game, and then first nerf their early game even FURTHER before then offsetting that nerf with extra early-game defensive capability (more prox and probes).

I think it's better to do nothing -- just let Bios be weak early game as intended, take out mini2 from treasures, nerf their paydays (so Bios just can't payday their way to adv tech so easily). After that, then we can have a discussion on perking their defensive capabilities (maybe not two prox / two probes, but maybe something less drastic like a probe sig reduction or something to improve reaction times (basic fig speed, rip times)).

The thing is, Bios is a bad faction, but what's worse (from my perspective) is they are supremely unfun to play against. On most maps and settings with equal teams, Bios basically doesn't stand a chance. But that one time Bios escapes from the early game, you're guaranteed a really, REALLY frustrating hours-long experience for your opponents. Both of those need to be changed. Lowering Bios' research times is a bad idea because it removes the "that one time Bios escapes" and turns it into "when Bios escapes the early game," while the hours-long experience remains the same. Removing Mini2, aside from introducing weird balance issues elsewhere, similarly doesn't change the fundamental problem of "unfun to play against."

Yes, opening a bad faction with a nerf is somewhat odd. But the goal isn't to make the faction more competitive, it's to give the faction some reasonable counterplay besides "push an op and bomb and pray." I'm also interested in perking them in a way that makes the "push an op and bomb" strategy less powerful specifically because I'm introducing new counterplay to them. Now you have a plan A and a plan B for Bios, whereas generally you have plan A: bomb their exp as soon as it builds and plan B: oh thank the lord jesus they have no U rocks.

(Though I remain convinced the main problem Bios has wrt surviving is a lack of player skill. There's something special about losing the game because 10 pilots are arguing that what they were doing is more important than probing.)

cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Jan 4 2017, 09:28 AM) Edit: I also don't get the point of raising bios techbases to 25k. This requires two extra rocks to be mined before they can launch a techbase, which pushes their entire development out probably another 3-4 minutes. I don't think it makes sense to first identify the problem with Bios is that they are too weak early game, and then first nerf their early game even FURTHER before then offsetting that nerf with extra early-game defensive capability (more prox and probes).

I think it's better to do nothing -- just let Bios be weak early game as intended, take out mini2 from treasures, nerf their paydays (so Bios just can't payday their way to adv tech so easily). After that, then we can have a discussion on perking their defensive capabilities (maybe not two prox / two probes, but maybe something less drastic like a probe sig reduction or something to improve reaction times (basic fig speed, rip times)).

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