PCore9 Proposed Changes

Discussion / Announcement area for PCore development.
zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

Yo P32, there's a few things I'd like to change for PCore9. Obviously up to you but these are my initial thoughts:

Dreg: Perk yield to 1.3 (from 1.2). Right now they have a @#(!ty lategame and a @#(!ty economy. Perking their yield slightly (not back to the old 1.35) would help them dramatically overcome their currently crappy hull, sig, and sensors.

Giga:

Lxy Ints: Increase fuel, ammo, and cargo capacity (hopefully to 2 PPs per slot). Nerf rip time to 20s, 25s, or remove entirely. Lxy ints don't feel like "really good hvy ints" they feel like the bastard child of hvy ints and Rix basic figs. You pay $500 to reach the level of other ints... except you get to ripcord. Wooo. Extra capacity would give them the feel of being something special, something set apart from other ints. You can be in the fight longer, boost further, etc.

Lxy Scouts: Give them a mini-ac turret!!!!! I get that hvy scouts with turrets was pretty OP, but with lxy scouts I'm paying $500 for the damn thing.

Lxy SFs: Give them a 15% energy pool boost. Right now they're adv sfs... but carry another missile. That's great, but lxy sfs are completely useless in tac v tac matchups or in situations where missiles aren't particularly useful.

Spec mines: with SY off they should be a little flimsier. Dropping them to 3k shields and 3k hull (instead of 3333 and 3333) would basically make it a hair easier to kill them and take a hair less time, which is probably a good thing. In fact, I'd almost consider dropping the shields and hull of all Giga lt bases similarly... but that might be a bit much.

OH: Turn rate and torque to 1.1 and 1.2 respectively. People are complaining about how OP these ints are, and I feel like touching them back ever so slightly is in order.

TF: Accel to 1.1, readjust their cons so that their accel is the same as every other faction. The Accel buff was removed because it lead to problems with their cons. Instead of taking a chisel to the faction and fixing the slight issue, it was smacked with a sledgehammer and never really recovered.


Drac: Hull back to 1.1, PW damage to .85, missile damage to .9, basic cons can rip. Vogue's complaint that he couldn't solo miners should've been met with "good." Phoenix is proof that vanillizing factions just makes them unplayable and that's what happened to drac: by touching them in the wrong place with the nerf gun you vanillized them and it made them bad. Other's complaints that Belters were supposed to be the "tough" faction actually completely missed that Belters figs, etc. were substantially tougher than Drac figs because they had higher base hulls and Drac's shield nerfs. Belters combat ships will remain tougher, their bbrs and drones not as tough.

As for the basic cons being able to rip thing, we can (I think) agree that it was a gameplay gimmick that only came up when it was incredibly frustrating to deal with and turned ENH Cons from "this is a pretty good buy" to "get this if you want to buy more than one set of cons or plant your TP anywhere other than home."
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Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
Deathrender
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Post by Deathrender »

How about keeping the idea of giving Drac cons special value?

Keep unrippable cons, but add the ability to rip TO the cons. It would add increased value to sup with pushing cons, and make better cons even more valuable. You were complaining about Drac's lack of ability to keep map control, with using cons to take more sectors, this would certainly help. Say, adv cons get same energy as a Giga Lt carrier, basic and enh get enough to rip 1 scout or fig.

Just do the exact same thing that TF does with their miners.
Last edited by Deathrender on Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jul 22 2017, 05:58 PM) Mini ac gunner mount was removed because somewhere along the lines we had a core dev that said, "I really hate Terran and want him to be miserable." And all core devs ever since have agreed.
zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

I considered that in addition to letting basic cons rip. I'd like to see what happens with these changes to drac first though.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
vogue
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Post by vogue »

Please, they're still impossible to solo in any reasonable game.
phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ May 5 2013, 08:35 PM) Vogue is clearly #1 and commanding against him feels like commanding against Spideycw at times... though he lacks that little bit of "I don't care who's on my team or what the factions are, it's going to be a stomp anyways" that Spidey managed to pull off in his heyday.
zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

Good.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
vogue
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Post by vogue »

You know what we should do to really make draconium full retard? Make all their cons small rips. That way you can just do whatever you want and just tell the enemy team to suck on your big fat miners
phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ May 5 2013, 08:35 PM) Vogue is clearly #1 and commanding against him feels like commanding against Spideycw at times... though he lacks that little bit of "I don't care who's on my team or what the factions are, it's going to be a stomp anyways" that Spidey managed to pull off in his heyday.
ThePhantom032
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Post by ThePhantom032 »

Some good points, and some I consider... not so good :P
Will obviously think about these some more, but for now:
phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 9 2015, 08:07 PM) Dreg: Perk yield to 1.3 (from 1.2). Right now they have a @#(!ty lategame and a @#(!ty economy. Perking their yield slightly (not back to the old 1.35) would help them dramatically overcome their currently crappy hull, sig, and sensors.
Dreg lategame is not weak. The speed buff (and missile damage buff) make any lategame dreg reaches really good. Though getting there seems a bit too hard right now, so expect yield to go up to 1.25.
phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 9 2015, 08:07 PM) Lxy Ints: Increase fuel, ammo, and cargo capacity (hopefully to 2 PPs per slot). Nerf rip time to 20s, 25s, or remove entirely. Lxy ints don't feel like "really good hvy ints" they feel like the bastard child of hvy ints and Rix basic figs. You pay $500 to reach the level of other ints... except you get to ripcord. Wooo. Extra capacity would give them the feel of being something special, something set apart from other ints. You can be in the fight longer, boost further, etc.

Lxy Scouts: Give them a mini-ac turret!!!!! I get that hvy scouts with turrets was pretty OP, but with lxy scouts I'm paying $500 for the damn thing.

Lxy SFs: Give them a 15% energy pool boost. Right now they're adv sfs... but carry another missile. That's great, but lxy sfs are completely useless in tac v tac matchups or in situations where missiles aren't particularly useful.
I had a ton written for this but the simple problem of affordability (can spam lxy in small game, cant in large game) will always hold true so balancing these is going to be a nightmare if they are sufficiently stronger than "normal" adv tech. With current gamesizes I'd rather nerf lxy figs a tiny bit and keep the others as they are. To make it short, the other ships also have their perks, and they play a big role, even if you didnt notice them:
Ints ca 14% better thrusters (this also results in higher boost speed)
Scouts 20% extra scanrange and 50% more cargo
Sfs 15-25% more cloaktime with sig1-3, more maximum speed
phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 9 2015, 08:07 PM) Spec mines: with SY off they should be a little flimsier. Dropping them to 3k shields and 3k hull (instead of 3333 and 3333) would basically make it a hair easier to kill them and take a hair less time, which is probably a good thing. In fact, I'd almost consider dropping the shields and hull of all Giga lt bases similarly... but that might be a bit much.
With SY acting as "small game modifier" - yeah. Can nerf specs hull/shield a bit. Especially shield regen plays a huge role the smaller the teams get.
phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 9 2015, 08:07 PM) OH: Turn rate and torque to 1.1 and 1.2 respectively. People are complaining about how OP these ints are, and I feel like touching them back ever so slightly is in order.
Good idea.
phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 9 2015, 08:07 PM) TF: Accel to 1.1, readjust their cons so that their accel is the same as every other faction. The Accel buff was removed because it lead to problems with their cons. Instead of taking a chisel to the faction and fixing the slight issue, it was smacked with a sledgehammer and never really recovered.
No. At least for me, the argument was never about the cons, but the ships. There is a reason their accel was only nerfed after accel GA got fixed in the code and people started buying it. TF has an effective 25% accel buff due to their low mass already. Adding any faction modifier on top of that will make TF ships with accel GA completely unhittable unless you have the best of pings. Hvy ints that are up/down thrusting are already very hard to hit from the front, and since they are not very long they are also hard to hit from the sides and above if they start boost-accelerating (while turning) when they notice getting shot from the side.
phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 9 2015, 08:07 PM) Drac: Hull back to 1.1, PW damage to .85, missile damage to .9, basic cons can rip. Vogue's complaint that he couldn't solo miners should've been met with "good." Phoenix is proof that vanillizing factions just makes them unplayable and that's what happened to drac: by touching them in the wrong place with the nerf gun you vanillized them and it made them bad. Other's complaints that Belters were supposed to be the "tough" faction actually completely missed that Belters figs, etc. were substantially tougher than Drac figs because they had higher base hulls and Drac's shield nerfs. Belters combat ships will remain tougher, their bbrs and drones not as tough.

As for the basic cons being able to rip thing, we can (I think) agree that it was a gameplay gimmick that only came up when it was incredibly frustrating to deal with and turned ENH Cons from "this is a pretty good buy" to "get this if you want to buy more than one set of cons or plant your TP anywhere other than home."
Dracs motive will be "you cant kill our stuff, but we cant kill yours either, so lets all mine to hvy ints and DM until sbs come up". Sounds like fun. :P
I likely overdid the nerf on draconium - too many screws turned down at once.

btw: I'm (still) doing this because no one else is, not because I really want to. Otherwise updates would be much faster. ;)
Anyone is free to make their own core if my update rate is too slow, and I'll be happy not to do it anymore.
Still ready to teach anyone who asks nicely whatever they want to know about playing alleg. Contrary to popular opinion I do not eat newbies. Voobs taste much better.
zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

If you wanted to pass off PCore to me I would be willing to take it.

And Drac's miners would actually be relatively easy to kill. Their defensive craft would deal very little damage, their nans would heal for very little damage... it would just take a little longer/require actual teamwork.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
ThePhantom032
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Post by ThePhantom032 »

phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 10 2015, 05:42 PM) If you wanted to pass off PCore to me I would be willing to take it.

And Drac's miners would actually be relatively easy to kill. Their defensive craft would deal very little damage, their nans would heal for very little damage... it would just take a little longer/require actual teamwork.
Go ahead, one less worry for me, especially since I broke my lan server somehow and am now testing with my personal beta lobby which adds another step for every test run.
Of course I'll be happy to give input/send you my notes once I make them readable. Give me 24h and it should be ready to read for someone who is not me.
Still ready to teach anyone who asks nicely whatever they want to know about playing alleg. Contrary to popular opinion I do not eat newbies. Voobs taste much better.
Djole88
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Post by Djole88 »

Phantom032 wrote:QUOTE (Phantom032 @ Jan 11 2015, 12:13 AM) Go ahead, one less worry for me, especially since I broke my lan server somehow and am now testing with my personal beta lobby which adds another step for every test run.
Of course I'll be happy to give input/send you my notes once I make them readable. Give me 24h and it should be ready to read for someone who is not me.
NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

tl;dr; I am against it!
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