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Discussion / Announcement area for PCore development.
cashto
Posts: 3165
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:40 am
Location: Seattle

Post by cashto »

You should feel flattered, he took a look at that wall of text and read enough of it to lol at it, which is more than I could muster ...
Last edited by cashto on Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Globemaster_III wrote:QUOTE (Globemaster_III @ Jan 11 2018, 11:27 PM) as you know i think very little of cashto, cashto alway a flying low pilot, he alway flying a trainer airplane and he rented
NightRychune
Posts: 3065
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:00 am

Post by NightRychune »

phoenix relies on overwhelming offensive power in order to kill their enemies but their existing design has always required an absurd, unreasonable amount of money to complete even a single tech path with supplemental transceiver tech, and as a result suffers immensely compared to other factions

the best way to get around it would probably be to just remove the transceiver requirement for their bonus tech and bake it into their current tech paths; vulcans -> exp and cut the ammo consumption and lasers -> sup, with figs being able to mount minilasers with slightly larger than gat range. tac is ultimately fine due to the extra missile each ship gets and the fact that tac is very very strong in this core
Malicious Wraith
Posts: 3170
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:51 am

Post by Malicious Wraith »

I say we use Phoenix as an excuse to implement a capital ship-only faction.
:whistle:
Unknown wrote:[Just want] to play some games before Alleg dies for good.
I don't want that time to be a @#(!-storm of hate and schadenfreude.
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zombywoof
Posts: 6522
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 am
Location: Over the Rainbow

Post by zombywoof »

cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Dec 5 2014, 11:12 PM) You should feel flattered, he took a look at that wall of text and read enough of it to lol at it, which is more than I could muster ...
I just don't understand why he's so consistently mean to me.

He makes me cry and thus I demand Dome ban Vogue.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
vogue
Posts: 1971
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:28 am

Post by vogue »

*#$@s out boys its time for another ban vogue circlejerk
phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ May 5 2013, 08:35 PM) Vogue is clearly #1 and commanding against him feels like commanding against Spideycw at times... though he lacks that little bit of "I don't care who's on my team or what the factions are, it's going to be a stomp anyways" that Spidey managed to pull off in his heyday.
Archangelus
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:36 pm
Location: Paradise City

Post by Archangelus »

phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Dec 6 2014, 02:36 AM) YOU KNOW WHAT ARCHY OU ARE AN @#$%@#

*upon further review of the drunk P1 actually READING archy's post... seirously dude you're an @#$%@#.
I love you too man. But really dont implement this. The game is already ruined enough with all the kinky modifications ppl implemented throughout all those years. You had an excellent post about how the creators of this game made the first factions very fun and detailed, and making the details differ them. I believe you should start from that. Toying with any player-made faction is asking for your own doom, as they are clearly $#@!ed up. I meant no offense for the creators, because the factions are $#@!in awesomely fun.

Viru summarized phoenix fixings the most, and he didnt even mentioned that with disco balls, peenix is UNSTOOOPAAABLLEEEE.
pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 18 2014, 06:08 AM) Seems like some people forget, that they're guest here and their status can be removed any time.
zombywoof
Posts: 6522
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 am
Location: Over the Rainbow

Post by zombywoof »

The problem I'm trying to fix is not that the faction's underpowered, it's that it's BORING.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
vogue
Posts: 1971
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:28 am

Post by vogue »

No, please implement this. I finally got time to read through the changes he proposed and they make sense. Would actually make this an interesting faction to play instead of the @#(! heap it is right now.
phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ May 5 2013, 08:35 PM) Vogue is clearly #1 and commanding against him feels like commanding against Spideycw at times... though he lacks that little bit of "I don't care who's on my team or what the factions are, it's going to be a stomp anyways" that Spidey managed to pull off in his heyday.
Archangelus
Posts: 2376
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:36 pm
Location: Paradise City

Post by Archangelus »

phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Dec 6 2014, 05:41 PM) The problem I'm trying to fix is not that the faction's underpowered, it's that it's BORING.
Peenix is not boring. Their fun tech is just THAT EXPENSIVE. Like someone said above, if u wanna make it fun, remove transceiver as pre-req for their fun tech, or tie them to less tech. Right now, for any fun tech they use, they need another 2 that most likely wont.
pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 18 2014, 06:08 AM) Seems like some people forget, that they're guest here and their status can be removed any time.
zombywoof
Posts: 6522
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 am
Location: Over the Rainbow

Post by zombywoof »

Archangelus wrote:QUOTE (Archangelus @ Dec 6 2014, 02:16 PM) Peenix is not boring. Their fun tech is just THAT EXPENSIVE. Like someone said above, if u wanna make it fun, remove transceiver as pre-req for their fun tech, or tie them to less tech. Right now, for any fun tech they use, they need another 2 that most likely wont.
Having fun tech doesn't keep a faction from being boring.

The problem with Phoenix is as follows:

IC: Tough, in-your-face, no nonsense faction.
Giga: Bah $#@! it we're rich throw money in their face.
Bios: BET YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING
Belters: Yarrr, we be pirates
Rix: Aliens.
Dreg: speedy, speedy lizards but easy to step on and squish.
GT: Utilitarian cyborgs.
TF: Actually just computers.
OH: Hive mind and insects.
Drac: "who cares about the guns, just stick a few more layers of armor on it."
Phoenix: ... um.

Phoenix is by far the most vanilla faction in the game and it doesn't have a real "direction." It feels more like someone was testing the limits of what could be accomplished in ICE than someone was trying to design a faction for general consumption. Almost all of its faction modifiers are 1. For $#@!'s sake, the faction's defining feature is its ship models which look completely unlike anything else in Allegiance. When you think about Dreg you don't think about how their ships look, you think about how they're FAST and how their missiles hit like a truck. TF's defined by how slow their ships are. Rix, by the way they turn and their lack of missiles.

Phoenix used to be "the shield faction" but there were all kinds of problems with assault shields and the removal of nanning and it just didn't make for good gameplay. But making Vanguards cheaper wouldn't change the fact that there's no good reason to play Phoenix. Even if Vanguards were strong and a viable solo-techpath because you made them cheaper or better or whatever, Phoenix still would suck as a faction because there is literally no reason to play them aside from getting Vanguards.

Just to point out IC for a second:

Sup: Miners rip and rip GA + spamming TPs around the map is really good for the econ. Ungalvable bases is huge in the sup mirror because you can buy galvs without fear of them being used against you. Good energy and good damage (both for PW and missiles) lead to some very hard-hitting bomb runs. Downside: big 'ol fatty hitboxes.

Tac: Missile damage, EW damage, and extra energy help offset the poor signature. Ability to get a second tech with just a techbase (not needing to research the ship) means that getting a sup or exp for defensive ships is very possible. Downside: high sig.

Exp: ungalvable bases mean that the sup matchup is a nightmare for the other team. Good PW damage and solid hull make for tough and dangerous interceptors. Ability to offload at techbases helps with economic planning. Downside: 2:00 con time build is rough for Expansion making it more likely they get out expanded early.

Compare to Phoenix:

Sup:5% missile damage nerf.

Tac: 5% missile damage nerf.

Exp: 10% turn torque perk.

Quick edit: I think the proble is that you're looking at it as a pilot while I'm looking at it as a commander. I want to see what interesting decisions the faction gives me tactically, while you care mostly about what ship you're flying and how it handles.
Last edited by zombywoof on Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
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