WeedCore 02

Discussion / Announcement area for WeedCore development.
Weedman
Posts: 2137
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:00 am

Post by Weedman »

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11821704/WC02.zip
only on ND server atm, this is an open test, contents of file go into production/artwork


Remove lead indicators from all ints, fighters, scouts (RIX and TF)


cm3 has no successor

change fuel icon
change ammo icon

MINERS, HP = 1056, was 960 (+10%)
ENH MINERS, HP = 1320, was 1200 (+10%)
ADV MINERS, HP = 1500, (unchanged)

MINERS, speed 100 (unchanged)
ENH MINERS, top speed = 110, was 100
ADV MINERS, speed 120 (unchanged)

Remove XRM, XRP, Fig Bomber, Cruise Booster, Nerve Gas SB from SY FLAG
These items available when shipyard off.

Carriers available always
HP= 2000, was 3000
except for Giga, which Lt Carriers are 1500, was 2500

enh Carriers tied to SY
enh carriers have 5000 HP

So if you think you need tough carriers, you need to research them, and SY must be on


Belters
Revert faction scales
Revert faction mass on fighters and interceptors (scouts and sfs, sbs etc were never changed)
Revert faction tech (keep when tech base lost)
Revert faction ships (keep when tech base lost)
Numerous complaints about this change. I do listen. Belters can keep their crappy ships when they lose their cheap tech bases, but if you expect to
be dogfighting champions, then you will be disappointed
reduce fuel on adv sf, from 8 to 5
reduce fuel on sf, from 8 to 5
reduce fuel on sb, from 8 to 5
belters tac already has a rear thruster advantage, adding more fuel to the only tac ship with a booster
mounted on it adds insult to injury, they have high mass and have already been used to suicide miners into asteroids numerous times
Omni fighter mass= 34, thrust = 700
New model for omni fighter, I thought, hey Belters is awesome and since they have an omnifighter,
why not actually combine components from the different ships, so here it is in all its glory.
Faction signature set 0.9 (10% increase signature)
FighterBomber, remove booster1, remove small shield from loadout, (bug loadout) even though it would never load it

Dreg
Scout scale from 18, to 17 (they are somewhat big)
Lt int, Int, Hvy Int scale from 17.5, to 16.9 (they are somewhat big, but as they are fast, it should remain so)
Station Hull to 100%, was 90%
Station Shield to 100%, was 90%
Miner he3 capacity to 95%, was 75%
Dreg needs a few perks to its economy, as from what I have seen they lose all the time.
Yes they cost more, 125% of normal, but they also reap in 135% of normal in he3 credits per miner load (135% yield)


Gigacorp
new weapon mounts on fighter, adv fighter, lxy fighter (tighter)
new weapon mounts on int, hvy int, lxy int (tighter)
add Lxy Heavy Bomber +10% hull, cost 750, +33% scan
add Lxy HTT +10% hull, cost 1250, +1 SRM EMP, +33% scan
Lxy Int, riptime = 15 seconds, was 20
patroller scan is 1600m, was 1200


GT
Guardian, return ion booster, increase speed to 30 mps, was 20 mps
Devastator, remove hvy sig cloak, only BIOS has a devastator with hvy sig cloak
All GT models have box hitboxes from what I have seen. IMO one reason why their ints are good.
Modify Mustang model, bubble hitbox
Modify PT Bomber model, bubble hitbox
Modify Int model, bubble hitbox
Modify Hvy Int model, bubble hitbox
Modify Scout model, bubble hitbox
modify Fighter model, bubble hitbox
Modify Miner model, bubble hitxbox
Modify Constructor model, bubble hitbox
Modify Pod model, bubble hitbox
Change Hvy Scout loadout to default to zeus over seeker if zeus is available
Change PT Bomber loadout to default to MRR Lightning over Thunders
Move Mini-Disruptor usemask to #3 (#3 is Minigun, emp cannon, pe minigun, etc) this would allow enemies of GT to pick up minidis and use on their interceptors
change gt fig scale to 14 (smaller)

Iron Coalition
new int model (appearance) wingpods, some art in the codex files sparked this
new hvy int model (appearance) wingpods, some art in the codex files sparked this
new enhanced fighter model (tighter guns) shorten wings
new advanced fighter model (tighter guns) shorten wings

Omicron:
Scout scale = 16.5, was 15.27 (too small)
Revert Adv Scout development in Starbase
He3 yield to 1.0, (was 1.1) in an effort to slow down economy

Change philosophy of OH Bombers.
Turret anti-base pw Hammer, removed, and moved to the pilot position on gun 1, and gun 2
this allows for solo bombing action if required
projectile damage for PW hammers, cut to 60%, as now they mount 2 guns on the bomber and hvy bomber
This results in more ammo use when pilot shoots PW Hammer, there are now 2 guns,
as with TF you will have to manage your turret gunners versus anti base capabilities
3rd gunner on bomber/hvy bomber removed
SBs, fig bombers, tts, and htts only mount 1 pw hammer
htt retains 1 gunner position with pw autocannon
SB = 300 ammo
TT = 150 ammo
HTT = 1440 ammo
Bomber = 1440 ammo
Hvy Bomber = 1440 ammo
FigB = 250 ammo



Phoenix
Side thrusters match other ships (was 0.9, is 1.0)
or (0.45 to 0.5) etc, it varies among ships
Bomber max thrust change from 500, to 750, to match other bombers
EW Laser Cannon 1 cost 2500, was 5000
EW Laser Cannon 2 cost 2500, was 5000
Hyper Jump booster cost 2500, was 5000
Laser Blossom 1 cost 2500, was 5000
Laser Blossom 2 cost 2500, was 5000
Vulcan Cannon 1 cost 2500, was 5000
Vulcan Cannon 2 cost 2500, was 5000
Attack Drones: shoot skill 0.75, was 0.5
Attack Drones: move skill 0.75, was 0.5
Vanguards cost 500 each
remove all missiles from vanguards, they are quite powerful and do not need any missiles at present
I think people forget how difficult it can be to get them
You need a starbase, gunships, a transceiever, and a tech base, you cannot just rush starbase and get them
as with every game, it's all about miners surviving
no-tech phoenix is pretty weak, and add to that their slower research
and vanguards using booster1,2,3 are ok, but they get most of their power from hyperjump, which requires booster2
then the guns.. you need a sup, adv sup if you want miniac3
if you want laser blossom you need an exp, and prox 2
see where i'm going, to fully trick them out, you have 2 or maybe 3 techs going, that's not easy with phoenix


Rixian Unity
Adv Scout Ripcost [SR], ripcost change from 1100, to 1200
Hvy scout Ripcost [SR], ripcost change from 900, to 1200
Hvy Scout (mini-ac) NOT SR, 1800 = ripcost
Rix Hvy Scout has 2 versions.
RIX Hvy Scout [SR] mounts Gat, is SR, ripcost is 1200, ammo is 800
RIX Hvy scout mounts mini-ac, is NOT SR, ripcost is 1800, ammo is 400

Heavy Scout, with mini-ac pilot, ammo change from 500, to 400
This means sustained fire, 1 ammo pack, lasts approx. 25 seconds, miniac3=108.9 dmg/sec

in comparison, adv fighters with 3 gats, 1 ammo pack, lasts approx 30 seconds!, gat3=150 dmg/second
interceptors with 3 minis, 1 ammo pack, lasts approx 12 seconds, mini3=225 dmg/second

station drone 1, particle size = 6, was 2, arm time 4 seconds, was 3, accuracy 0.05, was 0.075
station drone 2, particle size = 6, arm time 3 seconds, was 2, accuracy 0.05, was 0.075
station drones take slightly longer to deploy, with better accuracy, mostly due to their terrible effect vs tps

hvy station drone particle size = 8
hvy station 1 arm time 4 seconds, was 3, accuracy 0.05
hvy station 2 arm time 3 seconds, was 2, accuracy 0.05

TECHNOFLUX
remove lead indicator on ints, fighters, scouts
use rainop for op model

GARRISON
cm2 cost 2500, was 5000
cm3 cost 2500, was 5000
cm2 no longer requires sup or exp
cm3 no longer requires adv sup or adv exp, requires starbase

Move Retro Booster to Garrison, change values of - thrust, (apparently it was broken, thanks Pantagruel)

Change Mass of Hvy Sig Cloak 1 to "2", was 8
Change Mass of Hvy Sig Cloak 2 to "2", was 6

SUPREMACY
Move ship shield 1 & 2 GA to Supremacy
Move Ship Shield 1 & 2 development to Supremacy
+ This is a sizeable bonus for supremacy and scouts/fighters

Another change, this increases top speed of "BOOSTING" fighters
reduce thrust amount from 900, to 750
You heard right, reducing ship thrust, also has the impact on top speed of boosting action.
the thrust value applies itself to de-celeration as well,
a lower thrust value means fighters keep their momentum longer.

end result:
interceptors still have speed advantage, but the playing field has been equalized ALOT
fighters are now able to sustain 200+ mps without much trouble, and in fact, if using booster 2&3, and especially heavy booster..
adv fighters could match interceptors OR EXCEED in speed if those interceptors have only boost1

I hope this makes supremacy more "fun" but at the same time, my personal opinion is that fighters should not be blatently dogfighting 1v1
and winning hands down with interceptors, yes, adv fighters flown very defensively, at range, can put down interceptors, and more easily,
if the interceptor is engaging miners or constructors, yes, perfectly acceptable

boosting into 300m range and destroying things is what interceptors are for, that is not what fighters are supposed to be doing anyway

so as you read below, you will see that missile damage is moving, so don't cry about it, because I think it makes early game tac somewhat
viable, combined with ship speed 1, it means sfs can move, but more importantly, it gives drones, miners, cons, a speed increase to reduce
their most vulnerable time, which is enroute to rocks, enroute to un-occupied sector, or sitting on a rock

Advanced Fighters/ Enhanced Fighters / Fighters (Including Lxy Fighter and Omni Fighter)
rear thrust = 1 (was 0.5)
side thrust = 1 (was 0.5)

I've put shield GAs/ small shield into sup.
I've increased fighter boosting speed.
I've tweaked a couple fighter gun mounts that sucked (IC and giga.)
I've re-added carriers to game, regardless if sy is on or off

These are all things that buff supremacy.

And now I have made their side thrusters and reverse thrusters as good as Ints, in values anyway.
What it means is: a typical adv fighter top speed is 120 mps without upgrades or modifiers,
maximum reverse was 60 mps, and now would be sustainable at 120 mps, this also applies to side thrust

Don't confuse thrusters with "Boosters". I have made fighters 50% more agile sideways and 50%
faster in full reverse. This has nothing to do with Booster efficiency.

Now I need the community to test these changes out and voice your findings. I contemplated only
improving upon the side/reverse thrusters by 25% (0.75). Because I am curious if these 1.0 values
are too much. Considering fighters are supposed to be multirole craft, good at many things, but
not excellent at all of them.

I have decided to go for it, and if 1.0 is too much, then easily reduced to a lower value later.

I have test flown these fighters, but that is no good for what I want to know.
It needs real game combat testing. Fig vs Fig, Int vs Fig, etc multiple fighters

change enhanced fighter riptime to 9 seconds
adv = 8.5 (unchanged)
starting fighters = 10 (unchanged)

in comparison, cc rip times are lower


EXPANSION
I have done nothing to expansion. I have plans in next revision to address the possibility of changing
interceptor damage per second, or more accurately, minigun damage per second

I love ints, but currently they are way too dominant. cc nerfed their fuel to address their dominance.

rather than change what is good about flying ints, there is a chance to lower their damage/second

this does many things, it makes it harder for ints to kill utility ships, it makes it harder for ints
to spike bombers or htts or anything from under nans, it changes the way you must fly ints,
you must coordinate and stfn

Hvy ints are able to spike, with alot of damage, for short periods, average gun time before reload
is 12 seconds

in comparison, adv fighters gun time is like 25-30 seconds before reloading is necessary

I am looking at ideas of perhaps, lowering minigun damage per second, and adding some ammo to
ints / heavy ints, or maybe, only adding ammo to heavy ints.

why? well obviously, 2 gun ints, use less ammo per second than heavy ints do with a third gun

and it does not matter what type of int we are talking about, they have no ammo upgrades per ship,
they all have the same amount (450 ammo), OH and IC have (540 ammo), be it
light int, int, or heavy int

in comparison, fighters and enh fighters are the same ammo wise, but adv fighter has more ammo

if damage per second was reduced, basic "Interceptors" would not be as dominant as they are.
they are more than capable of destroying miners, especially if in groups of 3 or more. It's almost
unstoppable if you are not ready to defend the miner. This would make ints form up, and solo miner
kills would not be the norm, still possible, if the miner is alone, and if miners are left alone
then they should be killable. (also I have buffed basic miners HP +10%, and enh miners HP +10%)

Then, heavy ints come up, and they are more able to do these offensive moves.

I think part of the problem with exp being so dominant, is their basic ints can really cause havoc
and destroy the other teams chances of:
1. Bombing
2. Mining
3. Expanding
4. Killing miners

If you cannot do even 1 of these 4 things vs expansion, you are sunk, and the game is basically over.

Again, I have made no changes in wc02, I want to see how buffing the supremacy and tactical paths
will cope with current expansion. If expansion is truly still too powerful, then perhaps I try this idea.


TACTICAL
Move missile damage 1 & 2 GA to Tactical
Move ship agility 1 & 2 GA to Tactical
Change cost of ship speed 1 to 4000 credits (double the 2000 of level 1 GAs) was 5000
Change cost of ship speed 2 to 5000 credits (double the 2500 of level 2 GAs) was 7500
Change signature of sniper 1, to 0.3, was 0.5 (lower signature)
Change signature of sniper 2, to 0.3, was 0.5
sniper 1 energy per shot 8 (less energy use)
sniper 2 energy per shot 7
projectile sniper 1, size 2.5, was 2 (larger particle, because if sfs will fire undetected, at least you could trace their source)
projectile sniper 2, size 2.5, was 2
sniper 1 damage 3.5 (unchanged)
sniper 2 damage increase to 4.5


SHIPYARD
all bases scales set to 540 (some were small, DN values)

All Freighters deleted

ASS SHIPS, speed increase to 120, was 100
Destroyers, speed increase to 100, was 75

XRM Torpedo 1, acceleration from 50, to 60 (for more range, accuracy)
XRM Torpedo 2, acceleration from 60, to 70 (for more range, accuracy)
RANGE OF TORPEDOS IS APPROX 4 KM.

XRM Torpedo2 requires heavy class

Destroyers are weak, but if deployed in pairs or backed up with small ships, they can
engage capital ships or small ships, depending on missiles loaded

LRM Killer Swarm 1, lifespan from 8, to 10 (for more range)
LRM Killer Swarm 2, lifespan from 8, to 10 (for more range)
RANGE OF KILLER SWARM IS APPROX 3500-3700 METERS
Increase load per rack to 4 salvos of 5 missiles, was 2 salvos of 5 missiles

Destroyers: increase turn rate, and speed
Destroyers: remove turret gunner mini-ac gun
Destroyers are versatile in ranged combat, but in close range combat they are very vulnerable.

*** Destroyers are ranged animals. If loaded right, they can engage any type of ship.
Hunter Killers are for small ships,
Torpedos can be used against constructors and capital ships
Killer Swarm best versus capital ships

Rix has PW Lancer
GT is a combination of standard missiles and PE Striker which is excellent versus small ships

*** On the flip side, Destroyers have the lowest HP, so if swarmed by enemies, they die.

TREASURES

I had a change of heart on treasures. I put back the regular ones, plus a few notables.
"1" chance per treasure.

Add cashboxes back in.
Last edited by Weedman on Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
QUOTE Once engaged 13 and a half Dreg Heavy Ints (at the same time) with an IC Int and emerged in a heavy int with 2 mini 3 and 1 mini dis and all foes destroyed
--- QUOTE (spideycw @ Apr 1 2009, 01:53 PM) Definition of wtfpwn: Weedman in an int[/quote]
Lordus Weedicus II•Uses TS but can be difficult to understand due to the fact has never been sober•Expert int whore (without non-standard use of strafe buttons)•Gains skill increase when playing with Aarmstrong or former members of TRA•Expert miner D (ability to aim)•Can be trusted to run your economy•One of the half dozen or so game changers•Average Stacker
Mastametz
Posts: 4798
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:00 am
Location: Stanwood, WA

Post by Mastametz »

Weedman wrote:QUOTE (Weedman @ Feb 2 2013, 09:47 AM) Change PT Bomber loadout to default to MRR Lightning over Thunders
Boner.
Also boner for active core development.
Also boner for actually attention paid to loadout defaults/bugs.

Look at all you can get done when you don't waste time on crap like autobalance and automatchmaking. (and when you're actually good at/play the game so you can make changes that make functional sense)
Last edited by Mastametz on Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There's a new sheriff in town.
Archangelus
Posts: 2376
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:36 pm
Location: Paradise City

Post by Archangelus »

weedo del furio, much much much manluv for ya man. I will need to play to form an opinion at this, but at first glance, they all look really great.
pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 18 2014, 06:08 AM) Seems like some people forget, that they're guest here and their status can be removed any time.
Weedman
Posts: 2137
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:00 am

Post by Weedman »

open testing available now, on ND server only
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11821704/WC02.zip
QUOTE Once engaged 13 and a half Dreg Heavy Ints (at the same time) with an IC Int and emerged in a heavy int with 2 mini 3 and 1 mini dis and all foes destroyed
--- QUOTE (spideycw @ Apr 1 2009, 01:53 PM) Definition of wtfpwn: Weedman in an int[/quote]
Lordus Weedicus II•Uses TS but can be difficult to understand due to the fact has never been sober•Expert int whore (without non-standard use of strafe buttons)•Gains skill increase when playing with Aarmstrong or former members of TRA•Expert miner D (ability to aim)•Can be trusted to run your economy•One of the half dozen or so game changers•Average Stacker
zombywoof
Posts: 6522
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 am
Location: Over the Rainbow

Post by zombywoof »

I like bringing treasures back. Yes, they add variance to the game, but anyone who plays pretty much any cardgame knows that a little bit of variance is a good thing. A team getting free Gat2/DF2 could encourage them to go sup when they would have otherwise gone exp, or at least give them a small advantage. At the end of the day saving $5000 in tech costs certainly isn't huge or gamebreaking, but the advantage can be a nice little boost.

Plus, and this is pretty important, without treasures matchups are incredibly stale when they feature mirrored techpaths.
Image
Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
Weedman
Posts: 2137
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:00 am

Post by Weedman »

bios suffers early when they dont get tech

but anyway
QUOTE Once engaged 13 and a half Dreg Heavy Ints (at the same time) with an IC Int and emerged in a heavy int with 2 mini 3 and 1 mini dis and all foes destroyed
--- QUOTE (spideycw @ Apr 1 2009, 01:53 PM) Definition of wtfpwn: Weedman in an int[/quote]
Lordus Weedicus II•Uses TS but can be difficult to understand due to the fact has never been sober•Expert int whore (without non-standard use of strafe buttons)•Gains skill increase when playing with Aarmstrong or former members of TRA•Expert miner D (ability to aim)•Can be trusted to run your economy•One of the half dozen or so game changers•Average Stacker
Weedman
Posts: 2137
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:00 am

Post by Weedman »

has anyone tried it?
QUOTE Once engaged 13 and a half Dreg Heavy Ints (at the same time) with an IC Int and emerged in a heavy int with 2 mini 3 and 1 mini dis and all foes destroyed
--- QUOTE (spideycw @ Apr 1 2009, 01:53 PM) Definition of wtfpwn: Weedman in an int[/quote]
Lordus Weedicus II•Uses TS but can be difficult to understand due to the fact has never been sober•Expert int whore (without non-standard use of strafe buttons)•Gains skill increase when playing with Aarmstrong or former members of TRA•Expert miner D (ability to aim)•Can be trusted to run your economy•One of the half dozen or so game changers•Average Stacker
Archangelus
Posts: 2376
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:36 pm
Location: Paradise City

Post by Archangelus »

Yes, the hvy sig cloak mass reduction made bios ships kinda OP. I pretty much couldn't notice that slugish feeling whenever I flew with hvy cloak mounted.

Although I was alone.
pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 18 2014, 06:08 AM) Seems like some people forget, that they're guest here and their status can be removed any time.
kdpeters418
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:01 am
Location: Detroit

Post by kdpeters418 »

Thanks for all the hard work hombre.
Weedman
Posts: 2137
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:00 am

Post by Weedman »

thanks

I look forward to some real games soon. I want feedback on fighters
Last edited by Weedman on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
QUOTE Once engaged 13 and a half Dreg Heavy Ints (at the same time) with an IC Int and emerged in a heavy int with 2 mini 3 and 1 mini dis and all foes destroyed
--- QUOTE (spideycw @ Apr 1 2009, 01:53 PM) Definition of wtfpwn: Weedman in an int[/quote]
Lordus Weedicus II•Uses TS but can be difficult to understand due to the fact has never been sober•Expert int whore (without non-standard use of strafe buttons)•Gains skill increase when playing with Aarmstrong or former members of TRA•Expert miner D (ability to aim)•Can be trusted to run your economy•One of the half dozen or so game changers•Average Stacker
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