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Ive got a list of people that Ive met on these forums who I respect and see bits of them I want to graft on myself... sadly not even spelling my words better seems to have took

One of said peeps IMed me a comment and got the stressed out reply from one over opinionated fart joke telling goof ball. Soooo with a jaded eye and a huge wanna be a better person crush I'm going into let's discuss this one mode: Personal Passenger Vehicles that run off electricity... are they a net benefit to reducing the CO2 foot print of modern society

My answer: Not only no but $#@! no
Convince me with light

edit: less epeen

This paragraph just lowered my IQ, and also made me sterile, thanks.

Also the Electric Car was killed by the oil industry, much like any other transportation method not reliant on fossil fuels.

Their argument ended with "The reason why electric cars pollute as much/close to, is because the electricity needed for the car which comes primarily from coal, and other dirty industries contaminates as much"

Reality, yes, reduces CO2 footprint, but only if our electrical systems change to a cleaner method of production.

Shouldn't that be true once the predominant source of energy is renewable ones rather than fossil fuels?

SgtMajor wrote:QUOTE (SgtMajor @ Jan 12 2013, 09:22 PM) This paragraph just lowered my IQ, and also made me sterile, thanks.

Glad I had my babies already, sucks to be you

Sarg said:
"The electric car was killed by the oil industry"
Provide proof

Sarg said:
"Their argument ended with ""The reason why electric cars pollute as much/close to, is because the electricity needed for the car which comes primarily from coal, and other dirty industries contaminates as much""
Who is "they" are and why are "they"wrong

Death3D asked:
"Shouldn't that be true once the predominant source of energy is renewable ones rather than fossil fuels?"

MrChaos replies:
A better question would be this one Doc
"What is the best way to leverage renewable resources to reduce the global CO2 foot print"

I contend that the first thing to establish is what is a renewable energy resource

Isn't it also true that electric/hybrid vehicles make more of an impact on the environment during production and when they do go the the landfill?

Shizoku wrote:QUOTE (Shizoku @ Jan 12 2013, 09:47 PM) Isn't it also true that electric/hybrid vehicles make more of an impact on the environment during production and when they do go the the landfill?

Shiz

The question is a bit leading and I'm going to assume by impact you mean what are the effects if we only consider the effects of CO2.

IMHO in almost every case they make things worse when comparing an existing fossil fuel vehicle vs. utilizing an electric/hybrid approach as an alternative. In very specific cases based on the climate of the geographic area it may actually be possible it is a better option... may


I get this can be followed with a "prove it Mr Smarty Clown" type of reply. Im not really trrying to convince you, rather Im trying to be convinced on the matter. Im not expecting say SgtMajor to produce a 250 page report on the matter but I also hoping to get more than a bit of hand waving and fan boi facts.

There are any number of well read, smart, intellegent, peeps, on this forum with a diverging opinion... I guess I'm asking them to provide a path to enlightment so we share a similiar opinion.


tl;dr Im not trying to convince them rather Im asking them to convince me (no trolling intended) and words probably matter in this discussion

MrChaos wrote:QUOTE (MrChaos @ Jan 12 2013, 07:44 PM) Glad I had my babies already, sucks to be you

Sarg said:
"The electric car was killed by the oil industry"
Provide proof

Sarg said:
"Their argument ended with ""The reason why electric cars pollute as much/close to, is because the electricity needed for the car which comes primarily from coal, and other dirty industries contaminates as much""
Who is "they" are and why are "they"wrong

Search General Motors EV1, search Ovonics corporation and Chevron buying the NiMH batteries patent used (similar to the phone batteries but for vehicles) Search validity and comparison of Hydrogen powered fuel cells vs NiMH batteries. Search the docs about the public transportation of earlier times being bought out by oil regimens. (Electric city train thingy)

Many "websites" talk about it, but if you look at the sources at times you spot things like "WSPA" or Western States Petroleum Association among others.

SgtMajor wrote:QUOTE (SgtMajor @ Jan 12 2013, 10:21 PM) Search General Motors EV1, search Ovonics corporation and Chevron buying the NiMH batteries patent used (similar to the phone batteries but for vehicles) Search validity and comparison of Hydrogen powered fuel cells vs NiMH batteries. Search the docs about the public transportation of earlier times being bought out by oil regimens. (Electric city train thingy)

Many "websites" talk about it, but if you look at the sources at times you spot things like "WSPA" or Western States Petroleum Association among others.

Sarg

linkees hun. Ive got clue, scout's honor good sir. Im hoping to get the opposing views of my opinion on the matter. *shrug* No harm nor foul if you don't want in on the "fun"

Hugs and Kisses
MrChaos

QUOTE The question is a bit leading and I'm going to assume by impact you mean what are the effects if we only consider the effects of CO2.[/quote]

No, I'm talking about looking at a larger picture than just emissions from the vehicles. The batteries that only last 5-10years and take hundreds to decompose. Also the production on these batteries also produces a lot of pollution it itself.

I'll freely admit I'm a bit ignorant on the subject so that's why I asked you the question. Has there been any studies comparing the effects of hybrid, electric, gas and diesel, taking into account the production + emissions, fluid changes other types of things that result through the average vehicles life span + disposal of vehicle once its gone the way of old Herbie.

Saw a recent video with some encouraging info about super-capacitors instead of batteries, they found a new way to make cheap graphene sheets (single layers of graphite [like in a pencil]). These charge much faster than batteries, with similar capacities, and and much cheaper to produce, and are easily biodegradable when you are finished with them.

Thorium reactors looked interesting tech for energy production, using again readily available materials (waste from other mining), with improved safety characteristics, and no long term nuclear waste hazard. Apparently they were considered as alternatives to the uranium based reactors we have, but were not selected as they don't produce weapons material.