Dreg seems to suck now

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phungus420
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Post by phungus420 »

Since the model changes dreg seems to have really taken a hit. Was an issue in XC, and CC13, and still exists in CC14. Is there a way to check the stats on faction wins/losses so this isn't just my anecdotal observation?

I don't know how to fix it, and I'm certainly not asking to revert to the old broken models; using a broken game mechanic (semi unhittable models) is a terrible way to balance a game. However I just want to point out the problem. I'm sure the CC devs can figure out practical fixes and buffs to dreg so people start playing the faction again.
Spunkmeyer
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Post by Spunkmeyer »

OMG AN ACTUAL BALANCE REQUEST! :iluv:

Yes, we are already looking at reducing the int sizes, probably going to check out the other models too.

Any input about other ships we need to look at would be extremely welcome, if anyone wants to fire up the game and make some visual comparisons that'd be great as well.

(As an aside, the faction win/loss stats are not helpful generally because there are a lot of variables....unless of course it's something like a huge drop in wins right after the models have changed - but in my experience that doesn't happen: what small differences you see tend to be meaningless so it'd be wrong to use them for balancing purposes.)


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phungus420
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Post by phungus420 »

Spunkmeyer wrote:QUOTE (Spunkmeyer @ Feb 14 2012, 05:50 AM) (As an aside, the faction win/loss stats are not helpful generally because there are a lot of variables....unless of course it's something like a huge drop in wins right after the models have changed - but in my experience that doesn't happen: what small differences you see tend to be meaningless so it'd be wrong to use them for balancing purposes.)
Well if you don't like objective stats, then my subjective opinion is I can totally pwn with a GT or Bios Int, and I get totally owned in dreg figs or ints - and this seems to be universal, as I seem to pwn vets when they fly dreg ints/figs, even though they are better pilots then me so it kinda feels like cheating. Other factions dogfight about equally, and I understand and even agree with the GT and bios ints being uber - as that balances their cost (though I think GT ints are a wee bit OP, but that's a whole different topic). The issue with getting owned when flying dreg appeared in the XC core, and now also exists in the CC core since it has adopted the XC model changes.

Balancing by using model scaling is a decent idea. I would also encourage you to think outside the box, and maybe give dreg a different sort of perk to give them a more unique flavor.
Phalanxe
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Post by Phalanxe »

problem with them is that they're huge and their hull sucks balls. even giga ints are better =(
QUOTE 08/15/14 20:08:53: BabelFish (all): there are too many blacks on[/quote]
100%
qqmwoarplox
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Post by qqmwoarplox »

just make them faster
Nightflame
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Post by Nightflame »

Well, the faction stats aren't that helpful, but if you want em:
Dreg did not have a particularly impressive win rate through cc10 and cc11, but it was played the most by a decent margin.
In cc12, dreg stayed the most played faction (despite nerfs) and held the best win rate (at 60%).
In cc13, dreg plunged down below 40% win rate, and was used considerably less.

Dreg actually gaining win rate in cc12 despite nerfs is an excellent indicator of why you shouldn't take stats too seriously. Dreg has declined in popularity, but it's still played more than several other factions. Dreg could use a little more scale adjustment, but it's not critical.
cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Feb 27 2012, 01:40 AM) The big brass balls award goes to Nightflame for mutinying spidey (and succeeding).
qqmwoarplox
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Post by qqmwoarplox »

The reason dreg got more wins in cc12 is because I was abusing it 24/7
fwiffo
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Post by fwiffo »

if you want to make dregs sexy again w/o throwing off balance too much, you could give them reg figs (dual gats) to start out along with lt ints. it'll be the only faction that allows you the choice btwn the two, besides scouts.. that way you can take advantage of your missile perks earlier in the game.
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Compellor
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Post by Compellor »

phungus420 wrote:QUOTE (phungus420 @ Feb 14 2012, 09:07 AM) Balancing by using model scaling is a decent idea. I would also encourage you to think outside the box, and maybe give dreg a different sort of perk to give them a more unique flavor.
When Dreg got its new models it got new, much bigger scale values as well (much to Weed's consternation IIRC). That didn't change balance too much because they had small hitboxes. Now that the hitboxes are big and bubbly again like most of the other factions (I think GT may be the only one left that isn't) it's time to make scale values smaller again.
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Zero_Falcon
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Post by Zero_Falcon »

Zero_Falcon wrote:QUOTE (Zero_Falcon @ Feb 17 2012, 12:13 PM) I've done the visual recording of all the small ships so I'm now looking through Milkshape 3D for their CVH hitboxes :cool:

Most of the SFs are way bigger than the other small ships :o


These ships use the same scales in their images for comparison. Be sure to maximise them when you click the links:
Interceptors (CVH Complete)
Fighters
Scouts
Stealth Fighters (CVH Complete)
And btw the scale is shared between classes so you can compare the size of a dreg int with a dreg sct, etc.

EDIT: DasSmiter, will a thread split be necessary? Since this thread was about Dreg ships while what I posted is about ship models and hitboxes in general.

Blurting out: SFs. Are. Friggin. Huge.
Last edited by Zero_Falcon on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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