Fixing deathmatch

Development areas for Allegiance core (IGC) design.
Compellor
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:56 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Post by Compellor »

I've been thinking lately about what could be improved about Alleg overall to revive the playerbase, and while obvious and very difficult things like Direct X 11 graphics might be a boon to our advertising, I think lots of little improvements to the interface and gameplay of conquest mode, however welcome, simply aren't going to make any difference to the survival of this game. The number one problem is that most people - even those who like the complexity and some-times tedium of simulation games - simply aren't willing to put up with Conquest's learning curve, or the problems of voob commanders, stacking, and long waits between games.

What we really need are faster, easier game modes that space sim fans can pick up quickly while learning Alleg's particular quirks. There are a lot of possibilities there, and I recall some discussion of them when an original Alleg dev posted here some time ago, but the one goal that actually seems in reach to me (assuming our hardworking devs can ever get R6 out the door) is fixing the deathmatch mode.

Obviously, core developers and map makers would need to assist on this, but they can't fix the biggest problems:
1. Spawn points are static and obvious.
2. You can retreat to spawn to restore your health.
3. You can sit inside an invincible base indefinitely.
4. Maps are boring and mostly empty, aside from bases that don't cause collision damage to friendlies.

#1 is annoying, and has long been (mostly) fixed in most FPS games.

Whether #2 is a real problem is debatable, but I don't think it improves the gameplay overall. On the other hand, it's no fun to run out of fuel or ammo, so either having random powerups show up or adding something like an automated (i.e. not player controlled) tractor beam to suck up dropped fuel and ammo would be an improvement. Actually, the tractor beam would be a pretty big improvement to conquest, now that I think about it. If you don't want to animate it, you could just cheat by using a double-radius collision sphere for interacting with dropped items.

3, 2, and 1 combined are what really makes deathmatch unplayable. There's just no incentive to keep the game going when you can cower and wait for your opponent to quit camping your spawn, then attack them when you're closer to your hull-repairing base than they are. That's not to say players should autospawn - Battlefield allows you unlimited time to pick a class and get back in the game after all, and it works well. However, the combination of spawn method, teamwork if applicable, points structure + time limit, and bonuses like ship upgrades or killbonus, should combine to incentivize continuous action.

#4 - maps being boring and empty might be the most time-consuming part to improve upon, and is less important than the above, so it could wait until a later update. Dense, violent asteroid fields are a well-known favorite. Small, easily-destroyable outposts to hide in could be fun. More complex structures you can fly through Descent-like would be hard to do and require new artwork, but would probably be popular if done well. A capture point that gives you a better ship or weapons if you sit in it long enough might be desirable on all maps.

Oh, and you just know the newbs want to tool around in capships, so finding a way to make a capship-only deathmatch map where they're actually fun to use would be a huge improvement.

What do you say, devs, could this be the focus for R7? I think something like this could drive an influx of new players from e.g. the Freespace 2 community, because as ancient as Alleg's lobby and server interfaces and netcode are, they're still better than any other space sim.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
Icky
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:00 am

Post by Icky »

QUOTE Actually, the tractor beam would be a pretty big improvement to conquest, now that I think about it. If you don't want to animate it, you could just cheat by using a double-radius collision sphere for interacting with dropped items.[/quote]

This could be a big issue since it would be easier to "collide" with multiple items. If I pod someone and they drop both ammo and fuel near each other, how do I pick which one to pick up if they are both in my radius?
Last edited by Icky on Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pkk
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Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Germany, Munich

Post by pkk »

Compellor wrote:QUOTE (Compellor @ Jan 31 2012, 04:18 PM) 1. Spawn points are static and obvious.
Use different garr station model without launch joints.

Of course you could change server code, so it uses a different station during DMs.
Compellor wrote:QUOTE (Compellor @ Jan 31 2012, 04:18 PM) 2. You can retreat to spawn to restore your health.
See above.
Compellor wrote:QUOTE (Compellor @ Jan 31 2012, 04:18 PM) 3. You can sit inside an invincible base indefinitely.
You can change loadout, too. So deal with it.
Compellor wrote:QUOTE (Compellor @ Jan 31 2012, 04:18 PM) 4. Maps are boring and mostly empty, aside from bases that don't cause collision damage to friendlies.
You may need a special DM map on servers?

Everything can be done without a code change. All you need is a custom map and a core optimized for DM.
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.
fuzzylunkin1

Post by fuzzylunkin1 »

I think #4 would be one of the best options to improve upon.

But we could also take on other gameplay types... Improve AI, get some type of Horde in there, where you have to defend against oncoming waves... and that's just one example.
lexaal
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Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:58 pm

Post by lexaal »

A defense of the allegiance (let's call it DOTA) mod??

wtflol.
I have a johnson photo in my profile since 2010.
Compellor
Posts: 994
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:56 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Post by Compellor »

pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Jan 31 2012, 11:14 AM) Use different garr station model without launch joints.
Hmm, not really what I meant, but I guess this could work. It would at least be better. I was hoping to avoid having to maintain a separate DM core, but that may be the best way.

I put a few hours into trying to get one started, but I can't get Milkshape or MDLC to work so I could copy a garrison, so then I decided to just use the a teleport as a placeholder. However, I also can't convince my LAN server to work. At this point I'm just gonna say '$#@! it' and go play something else for a while.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
pkk
Posts: 5417
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Germany, Munich

Post by pkk »

You just need a station, where you can't dock. This can be done with ICE and without Milkshape (or even editing CVH files with notepad).
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.
Adaven
Posts: 1958
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Greater Ozarks

Post by Adaven »

All good ideas. I'd like to include one tossed around a while back:

5. Custom Treasures

Add Special floating tech to the DM core that grants a definite advantage to the holder. These can be items we are currently familiar with, like booster 3, mini 3, dumbfire 3, gauss, etc. Or you could bring back items from old cores: Hyperboost/Cap drive, hailstorm missles, etc. You could even add new DM only weapons:





It doesn't even have to match current core tech structure. Anyone could mount Hunter Killer if they pick it up, for instance.

The trick is to modify the DM tech tree so that these items are mountable, but not permanently saved to the rest of the team when docked. That way you can only keep your fancy toys until you die, at which point you'll have to find some more.
Last edited by Adaven on Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MonAG
Posts: 552
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:37 am

Post by MonAG »

Non-dockable stations + goodies (powerups, ammo, fuel) spawning in a tight radius near the center of the sector. This way the fight will gravitate towards the middle of the sector, and dogfighting will become more "tactical" (need to save ammo, fuel, missiles).
djrbk
Posts: 2341
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:51 am

Post by djrbk »

A no-KB mode would be neat, for people doing the level playing field thing.
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