Fixing deathmatch

Development areas for Allegiance core (IGC) design.
Spunkmeyer
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Post by Spunkmeyer »

djrbk wrote:QUOTE (djrbk @ Feb 4 2012, 05:42 PM) A no-KB mode would be neat, for people doing the level playing field thing.
I agree, this would be a great improvement. The point of KB is to offer the choice of a pod ride vs insta-kill and this is completely irrelevant in DM. Self-preservation is already encouraged by the fact that if you die you just gave the other team another point.


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DonKarnage
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Post by DonKarnage »

Everything except for the option for enabling or disabling KB can be done without a code change.


I know quite a few players don't want this game to get dumbed down to, what was it, Quake in space?
Just remember that Conquest isn't going anywhere, and squad games will likely remain how they are.
Last edited by DonKarnage on Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Compellor
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Location: Columbus, OH

Post by Compellor »

Seeing as there's some interest, I'm gonna make one last attempt and install the LAN server from scratch. EDIT: success!

What I'm aiming for as a first release is interceptors only, balance based on CC13, teleporter models as garrisons, increased launch speed, reduced sector size, and a custom treasure set with Mini3 and Boost3. I figure if people play it, I can improve on ('fix' is too ambitious a word) whatever balance issues there are between the different factions' interceptors, then add in Enh or Adv fighters later. Once the figs are added I'll probably get more creative with the treasures so that anyone can use the stuff that drops (BTW what is that helix beam thing?). My big question on treasures is if they should be mostly fuel and ammo, or mostly powerups (unless I just do powerups that don't refill health).

So, list of code-related ideas:
Killbonus toggle.
Launching from ships as though they were bases (might experiment with ripcording first before I say this is needed or even useful).
Non-random treasures (CTF variant? Placed in map editor?).
Higher treasure spawn rate options. I flew in circles in a scout for ten minutes on Brawl with treasures set to high and I saw maybe 2-3 starting treasures and another 2-3 that spawned later. I'm thinking a new treasure every 30 seconds would be nice. This might have something to do with spawn rates being lower in home sectors, but OTOH Brawl is special in certain ways I can't remember exactly how.
Make picking up treasures and dropped fuel/ammo easier.
Freespace-style mobile asteroids.

All of this could be fun, but aside from treasure spawn rate, the lack of a killbonus toggle is really the only thing that has a substantial impact on current DM play. On the other hand, if you can't run away home to dock up, then maybe KB won't be an issue anymore.

Also, instead of starting with a conventional DM core, does anyone think it would be better to start with a Star Wars or capship-based DM core? Star Wars seems more likely to draw in new players than the generic Alleg ships, though I worry that since Star Wars conquest isn't popular the DM version wouldn't be either.

EDIT: Hmm, can't see a way to alter treasure signature. My hope is to alter gameplay by making the appearance of good treasure - i.e. mini3 or a superweapon - be a way to break up the dancing for position of two teams and get at least some of them to go charging off toward the treasure. However, if it is more common for one side to be able to see it and the other cannot, then you're just randomly giving one side an advantage for no reason. So my options are 1. increase garrison scan range so the whole sector is under observation and you can't hide without careful use of asteroids, or 2. Increase int and gar scan ranges, then decrease signatures to maintain balance and hope that doesn't throw something else out of whack.

EDIT2: I think I'm going to remove fuel, ammo, and powerups from treasures and just hope people can scavenge fuel from their kills or die before they run out. Otherwise, the good stuff might never show up (barring a code change to increase spawn rate). On the other hand, I wish there weren't any treasures on the board at the start of the game. I'm not sure it's really a bad thing, it just strikes me as wrong somehow. On an unrelated note, I'm going to make garrisons destroyable by fighter weapons so that toggling 'invulnerable stations' actually does something.
Last edited by Compellor on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
DonKarnage
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Post by DonKarnage »

I'd say no treasures, just what drops from ships that get podded.

It'd be nice if the scout got buffed to be viable in a DM environment, right now it's just food for ints, because anyone but a newb can anticipate prox (unless you're a prox pro, in which case, $#@! you)
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Compellor
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Location: Columbus, OH

Post by Compellor »

You can turn treasures off. If treasures are on, you might as well have something appropriate spawn. As for scouts, I don't think they really make sense in DM at all. I'll probably just make nan1 available to ints, at least as a treasure.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
TheDevil
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Location: London, UK

Post by TheDevil »

I really see no point in disabling KB. If you can kill something, and you should have an some sort of reward...killing something in a streak should grant greater reward, i.e Higher KB. And when you die you lose the said bonus and start from scratch. And besides as time goes you will clearly have harder time surviving seeing how you wont be able to dock anyway to resupply/repair.

Now I am no expert in ICE, I have only recently started looking at it. But as far as i can tell, all we need to make a DM core is the the following:

Replace Garr model to transciever under GARR field
Enable all the tech pickup the same way Night disabled them in XC and set the appropriate probability

We already have a DM map called brawl and when we run the DM core on it the garr models will be transcivers, i.e no docking. And you will have a good DM mode.
And if we need a 1 sector map with no asteroids I can do that too, it only takes 1 min to make.
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Compellor
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Post by Compellor »

It's true there's no reason I can't make a DM core right now. As long as I have this thread though, I may as well gather ideas as to what could be helpful code-side.

QUOTE Enable all the tech pickup the same way Night disabled them in XC and set the appropriate probability[/quote]
???
I don't know what you're suggesting here.

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That's odd, I thought all the teleports had had their launch joints removed. Something about fixing a crash that occurs when multiple large ships rip to the same place at the same time.
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Last edited by Compellor on Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
Adaven
Posts: 1958
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Greater Ozarks

Post by Adaven »

Compellor wrote:QUOTE (Compellor @ Feb 5 2012, 03:10 AM) Higher treasure spawn rate options. I flew in circles in a scout for ten minutes on Brawl with treasures set to high and I saw maybe 2-3 starting treasures and another 2-3 that spawned later. I'm thinking a new treasure every 30 seconds would be nice. This might have something to do with spawn rates being lower in home sectors, but OTOH Brawl is special in certain ways I can't remember exactly how.
This is completely do-able in ICE. Here's the piece you are missing:

The interval between treasure spawns is based on the payday interval.

This is a global ICE option defaulted to 60s. I once wanted to do something silly with spec's and set the payday to .0001 or something, and was surprised to see my sectors overloaded with tech.
Last edited by Adaven on Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pkk
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Post by pkk »

I'm moving this to a different forum.
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.
Adaven
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Greater Ozarks

Post by Adaven »

Compellor wrote:QUOTE (Compellor @ Feb 5 2012, 03:10 AM) BTW what is that helix beam thing?
1. I've lost the sprite years ago, but it was just a sprite with 2 colored circles next to each other. I think I took dis2, moved it to the left and put a red/pink copy to the right of it.
2. 0 dispersion
3. higher than average rate of fire.
4. twiddle the rotation to look good.
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