Simplification game concept and interface

Development areas for Allegiance core (IGC) design.
clint
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Post by clint »

This topic is created for know what we can do for simplified the game concept and interface. Say what you found hard when you were newbie and say how we can solve this.

I will synthetise idea in this first post :
Last edited by clint on Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men." Some ZLs about me

I approved this
clint
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Ardennes, France

Post by clint »

When i start to play, I found the ripcord system was hard to use, after I understant I had to press on F3 for unlock mouse, click with my mouse on the aleph on the F7 map, and after press R for ripcord.

Maybe we could do a pop up system when we press R for ripcord, a mini map F7-like will pop and you could click on the receiver you want on the aleph you want when you are ripcording.
Last edited by clint on Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image


"What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men." Some ZLs about me

I approved this
Spunkmeyer
Posts: 2013
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Contact me regarding: CC, Slayer and AllegWiki.

Post by Spunkmeyer »

There are already known targets for this.

*Fewer armor classes/damage types
*Fewer signature and scan range variations
*Signatures and scan ranges visible on HUD on target selection.
*User configurable radar detail
*"Seen-by" indicator with optional audible alarm.
*Easier inventory management or alternative shield/missile drop mechanism
*Guided threat indicator/target selection for newbies
etc...there is a lot more.


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Makida
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Post by Makida »

clint wrote:QUOTE (clint @ Dec 30 2011, 06:26 PM) after I understant I had to press on F3 for unlock mouse, click with my mouse on the aleph on the F7 map, and after press R for ripcord.
... That's not how it works. With the default keymap, you only have to press 0 on the number pad to unlock the mouse, and the ripcord engages automatically when you click on a sector with a receiver on the F7 mini-map. Or you can just hit R to simply rip to the nearest receiver. Or if you have something in another sector targeted, and rip-cording is the fastest way to get there, you can just engage the auto-pilot.

Unless you're saying that's the way you thought it worked when you were newer.
clint wrote:QUOTE (clint @ Dec 30 2011, 06:26 PM) Maybe we could do a pop up system when we press R for ripcord, a mini map F7-like will pop and you could click on the receiver you want on the aleph in the sector you want when you are ripcording
That does sound like a nice idea, but right now probably isn't the best time for code changes like this, since R6 is delayed enough as it is, and has already long since ended the "adding new features to it" stage.

^ Things like simplifying armour classes can be done in cores, though, and don't require a code change. The current armour/damage class system is pretty bulky and un-intuitive...
clint
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Location: Ardennes, France

Post by clint »

Armor class system is fine but no one know it exist :P or how it works.

But delete the armor class system without change the dommage dealed by weapon could be hard.
Where you are newbie, you dont know forcely you got a F7 mini-map and you can rip in :P

fewer signature and scan range variations, we shouldnt touch the gameplay, just simplified is understanding, and its true too i never understand how work the scan range and sig system :P


Signatures and scan ranges visible on HUD on target selection, why not but we could know if he wear missile or shield.
But we could on HUD the range with he could see our ship, and the range he will diseapear on our radar (less calcul for my small brain :P )


For the other, it could be good upgrade.

@girlyboy, we dont care if its the time or not, its better to have idea ready for simplified the game

if someone know where are other topic like it, give me link plz, i will read them
Last edited by clint on Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image


"What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men." Some ZLs about me

I approved this
jbansk
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:57 pm

Post by jbansk »

Clint,

The game appears complicated and has a high learning curve for a reason: The game IS complicated and has a high learning curve because of its complexity.

THAT is the reason many players stick around, to learn and master it! We don't want to recruit players who are incapable of learning these complexities by dumbing down the game.

The game itself needs to draw all sorts of players and KEEP those who fit the pilot profile.
[15:25] <BBT_> oh, so da vinci's mona lisa isn't his work?
[15:25] <+fuh-zz> No, he simply put effort into it.
[15:25] <BBT_> are you really that retarded?
Archangelus
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Post by Archangelus »

Spunkmeyer wrote:QUOTE (Spunkmeyer @ Dec 30 2011, 09:31 PM) There are already known targets for this.

*Fewer armor classes/damage types
*Fewer signature and scan range variations
*Signatures and scan ranges visible on HUD on target selection.
*User configurable radar detail
*"Seen-by" indicator with optional audible alarm.
*Easier inventory management or alternative shield/missile drop mechanism
*Guided threat indicator/target selection for newbies
etc...there is a lot more.
About the armor class: something like utl, light, medium and heavy? But honestly I don't think this session needs to be changed, just better explained.

The signature and scan is the most interesting concept of this game, rather than reducing we should find a way to make it more noticiable and comprehensible.

The inventory should be able to be managed via mouse. This game already require too many key pressing.
pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 18 2014, 06:08 AM) Seems like some people forget, that they're guest here and their status can be removed any time.
Spunkmeyer
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Location: Contact me regarding: CC, Slayer and AllegWiki.

Post by Spunkmeyer »

Archangelus wrote:QUOTE (Archangelus @ Dec 31 2011, 09:12 AM) About the armor class: something like utl, light, medium and heavy? But honestly I don't think this session needs to be changed, just better explained.
I'm not talking about changing the system, but the current setup is needlessly overcomplicated. The idea behind the armor class is so you can have specialized weapons. So why do we have arbitrary armor classes and damage modifiers even though we DON'T have specialized weapons for those armor classes?

Basically there is no need to have light vs medium hull, and there is no need to have heavy vs super heavy hull. All that's done today can be done through HP adjustment. Since a lot of stuff uses light and medium, the result will be HP levels that accurately reflect the strength of the craft, and damage values that accurately reflect the amount of damage being inflicted.
Archangelus wrote:QUOTE (Archangelus @ Dec 31 2011, 09:12 AM) The signature and scan is the most interesting concept of this game, rather than reducing we should find a way to make it more noticeable and comprehensible.
Well, yes, but it'll help the newbie, if instead of having to remember (I'm exaggerating a bit) 20 different scan ranges, he could get by with only 5-6. It will not dumb down the game. @#(! like special mines don't need their own little slightly different scan ranges. Lux craft don't need an arbitrary 10% scan boost etc. It's just the result of years & years of let's tweak a value here let's tweak a value there school of core design.
Archangelus wrote:QUOTE (Archangelus @ Dec 31 2011, 09:12 AM) The inventory should be able to be managed via mouse. This game already require too many key pressing.
By that we are talking about in flight cargo/missile/shield management, so it does need some kind of keyboard stuff, but one that's hopefully not as mind-boggling till you understand the concept behind it.


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Archangelus
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Post by Archangelus »

Spunkmeyer wrote:QUOTE (Spunkmeyer @ Dec 31 2011, 02:15 PM) I'm not talking about changing the system, but the current setup is needlessly overcomplicated. The idea behind the armor class is so you can have specialized weapons. So why do we have arbitrary armor classes and damage modifiers even though we DON'T have specialized weapons for those armor classes?

Basically there is no need to have light vs medium hull, and there is no need to have heavy vs super heavy hull. All that's done today can be done through HP adjustment. Since a lot of stuff uses light and medium, the result will be HP levels that accurately reflect the strength of the craft, and damage values that accurately reflect the amount of damage being inflicted.


Well, yes, but it'll help the newbie, if instead of having to remember (I'm exaggerating a bit) 20 different scan ranges, he could get by with only 5-6. It will not dumb down the game. @#(! like special mines don't need their own little slightly different scan ranges. Lux craft don't need an arbitrary 10% scan boost etc. It's just the result of years & years of let's tweak a value here let's tweak a value there school of core design.


By that we are talking about in flight cargo/missile/shield management, so it does need some kind of keyboard stuff, but one that's hopefully not as mind-boggling till you understand the concept behind it.
Fair points, but we should keep in mind this game should be fun to everyone not only newbies. If you make it too simple, maybe it will not be so interesting for the vets who spent so long learning every aspect of this game.
pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 18 2014, 06:08 AM) Seems like some people forget, that they're guest here and their status can be removed any time.
Spunkmeyer
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Post by Spunkmeyer »

Absolutely, I have no intention to go that way. In fact the majority of this work needs to be in the area of revealing more of the hidden information that's normally buried deep in the core to the player, and how to design that while keeping the interface usable is an interesting problem.
Last edited by Spunkmeyer on Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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