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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:43 am
by MrChaos
From the shambling zombie hordes occupying Wall Street

QUOTE As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *

To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.[/quote]

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:26 pm
by SharpFish
MrChaos wrote:QUOTE (MrChaos @ Oct 4 2011, 04:43 AM) From the shambling zombie hordes occupying Wall Street
Lol. Surely the shambling zombie hordes are working in Wall Street?

You guys have been slaves so long you've forgotten what democracy looks like.

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:56 pm
by Camaro
QUOTE As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They bought the mortgages. Entirely legal.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
I agree that there should not have been a bailout
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
No kidding? No amount of laws will ever get rid of that one
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
Erm... that would be a result of government subsidies... at least the corporatism of farming... the negligence factor is of course there, but it is relatively minimal
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
That's lovely, why not focus on human issues right now?
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
OMG NO KIDDING? YOU MEAN THEY WANT TO MAKE MONEY JUST LIKE THE EMPLOYEES WANT TO MAKE MONEY!? BASTARDS! You can also blame Republicans and their strong anti-union stances
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
And where is that right enumerated at? The alternative is you pay more taxes throughout your lifetime for a lower cost for 4 years... big whoop
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
Globalization will be the ruination of this country, however you cannot blame the corporations for this, they simply do what makes them the most money. You can blame the government for opening up markets like China
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
While they did this like 2 centuries ago... I must say I agree, a corporation shouldn't be treated as a person. However to say they have none of the responsibilities is stupid since people have no real responsibilities either
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
Er... OK? The larger issue at hand is that the healthcare system is broken and costs so much that they put in these clauses. Best to fix the problem than the symptom
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
There is no right to privacy. That is a concept that just happens to be strong in our society. Also by puchasing whatever you agree to the terms and blah blah blah
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
Let the buyer beware. Lawsuits and other regulatory bodies do a decent job of forcing recalls. I agree with the sentiment against the military-industrial complex
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
Will partially agree
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
Yes and citizens donate large sums of money to politicians who are responsible for regulating them
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
Which is why there totally aren't alternative forms of energy being worked on right now
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
WHAT!? The only generic drugs that aren't allowed are some specialty bio-engineered ones... and that is just because there is no mechanism for those to exist in the US
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
Oh and people don't do this themselves on a daily basis? Not saying that it is right but it is hypocritical at least
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
Welcome to 1890
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
No comment
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
Will agree
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *
You sure it isn't the other way around?

To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.[/quote]

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:21 pm
by NightRychune
you know, one thing i would really like to see is a ban on trading debt

as in not allowing debt to be bought and sold by third parties - all debt relationships should remain between the initial debtor and the initial creditor

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:42 pm
by ryujin
NightRychune wrote:QUOTE (NightRychune @ Oct 4 2011, 10:21 AM) you know, one thing i would really like to see is a ban on trading debt

as in not allowing debt to be bought and sold by third parties - all debt relationships should remain between the initial debtor and the initial creditor
Agreed

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:54 pm
by NightRychune
or, at the very least, not doing it without notifying the debtor each time it's done, so people have their own record of their debt and who owns it at any given time

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:10 pm
by ryujin
NightRychune wrote:QUOTE (NightRychune @ Oct 4 2011, 09:54 AM) or, at the very least, not doing it without notifying the debtor each time it's done, so people have their own record of their debt and who owns it at any given time
I agree.
And stuff like this is at the heart of what those occupy people are protesting. Which makes me wonder why you seem so opposed to them trying (and yes, maybe not in the best way), but still trying to make a change.
Marching on the bridge traffic lanes was stupid- it taints there message and pisses off people who also have a right to use the bridges.
But it doesn't change their argument that government is in the pockets of corporate lobbyist, and the tax paying people are the ones getting $#@!ed.
By stuff like wars. And bailing out banks who were a big part of the reason why we had such an economic collapse.

"And, my friends, in this story you have a history of this entire movement. First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you. And that, is what is going to happen to the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America."

I'm not saying this movement may not just fizzle out. But at first the mainstream media ignored it. Now they ridicule it. Next step is it fizzles out or the attack thing. I think the cold weather will be a real test of how much those occupying are committed to their causes. (Except the ones that don't have a home anyway.)

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:15 pm
by NightRychune
i'm not opposed to them trying

i'm opposed to them being @#$%@#s and inconveniencing/harassing people that probably, at the end of the day, want the same things they do

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:26 pm
by ryujin
NightRychune wrote:QUOTE (NightRychune @ Oct 4 2011, 11:15 AM) i'm not opposed to them trying

i'm opposed to them being @#$%@#s and inconveniencing/harassing people that probably, at the end of the day, want the same things they do
And again I agree! If nothing else I don't like them harassing people because it smears their movement.

But consider that the ones being jackasses might be in the minority... Though I doubt mainstream media would ever want us to think that.

From what I got reading about the bridge incident- some 20-50 people started going up the bridge after being told not to. Then realizing they were going to anyway, the police then followed ahead of those minority of people. This had the effect of the majority of those who were arrested thinking the police were escorting them over the bridge. It doesn't seem like anyone except the first fifty or so heard any threat about being arrested. I guess in the end they weren't arrested, just detained.

But either way, they are getting attention, and encouraging debate on things that most people have been silent on for a long time. So in that regard, I think it is being successful.

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:01 pm
by SaiSoma
hi