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Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:02 pm**

I've now heard this from 3 other people that the joystick settings for deadzone seem different.

We now have Smallest, small and large none of which seem to be delivering the same response as prior to R5.

Posted: **Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:51 pm**

post in a

Code: Select all

 your DirectInput.log

Posted: **Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:56 pm**

Oh thank god you replied. I was about to uninstall Alleg over this. I've confirmed and reconfirmed that it's not me or the joystick. Storm Strike has the exact same joystick (MS Sidewinder 3D Pro) and I've asked him to test it but haven't gotten a reply back yet.

I can only describe the affect using the different deadzone settings.

Smallest deadzone setting: Zoomed in turret - slightest movement of joystick yields too much movement of reticule. The deadzone feels alright, however; the joystick seems too sensitive. Feels almost jittery. Zoomed out turret or ship flying - Feels just slightly too sensitive.

Small deadzone setting; Zoomed in turret - feels as though the deadzone is too large. I move the stick slightly from center position and when it responds, the reticule leaps. Zoomed out turret or ship flying - appears to still be too large but less obvious until you need to precisely lay ammo on a small target such as in a DM situation, then it is more apparent.

Large deadzone: Completely unusable. Way to large to even consider.

I think if the "Small Deadzone" were just slightly smaller, it might be closest to what used to be "Normal" in R4. Can I tweak these settings in the registry to find which is correct? I'm afraid I may miss-represent what I'm seeing as it's difficult to explain what can only be seen by first hand experience. The smoothness of the target tracking is completely gone and it's like trying to keep a leaping reticule still with a dead spot in the center of your stick.

as you requested, here is the DirectInput.log

Code: Select all

Log file DirectInput.log created - Nov 19, 17:57

Initialized DirectInput
StaticEnumDeviceCallback:
    pdidi->dwDevType: 12 (subtype: 1)
    pdidi->tszProductName: Mouse
    Initialized mouse stream - Axes: 3, Buttons: 5, POVs: 0
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02E0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: X-axis
        pddoi->dwType: 1 (instance: 0)
        pddoi->wUsage: 0 (page: 0)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02E1-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Y-axis
        pddoi->dwType: 1 (instance: 1)
        pddoi->wUsage: 0 (page: 0)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02E2-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Wheel
        pddoi->dwType: 1 (instance: 2)
        pddoi->wUsage: 0 (page: 0)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 0
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 3)
        pddoi->wUsage: 0 (page: 0)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 1
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 4)
        pddoi->wUsage: 0 (page: 0)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 2
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 5)
        pddoi->wUsage: 0 (page: 0)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 3
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 6)
        pddoi->wUsage: 0 (page: 0)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 4
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 7)
        pddoi->wUsage: 0 (page: 0)
StaticEnumDeviceCallback:
    Skipping keyboard as input.
StaticEnumDeviceCallback:
    pdidi->dwDevType: 14 (subtype: 2)
    pdidi->tszProductName: Microsoft SideWinder 3D Pro (USB)
    Initialized joystick stream - Axes: 4, Buttons: 8, POVs: 1
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02E1-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Y Axis
        pddoi->dwType: 2 (instance: 1)
        pddoi->wUsage: 31 (page: 1)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02E0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: X Axis
        pddoi->dwType: 2 (instance: 0)
        pddoi->wUsage: 30 (page: 1)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02E3-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Z Rotation
        pddoi->dwType: 2 (instance: 5)
        pddoi->wUsage: 35 (page: 1)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F2-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Hat Switch
        pddoi->dwType: 10 (instance: 0)
        pddoi->wUsage: 39 (page: 1)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 0
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 0)
        pddoi->wUsage: 1 (page: 9)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 1
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 1)
        pddoi->wUsage: 2 (page: 9)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 2
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 2)
        pddoi->wUsage: 3 (page: 9)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 3
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 3)
        pddoi->wUsage: 4 (page: 9)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 4
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 4)
        pddoi->wUsage: 5 (page: 9)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 5
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 5)
        pddoi->wUsage: 6 (page: 9)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 6
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 6)
        pddoi->wUsage: 7 (page: 9)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F0-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Button 7
        pddoi->dwType: 4 (instance: 7)
        pddoi->wUsage: 8 (page: 9)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02E4-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Slider
        pddoi->dwType: 2 (instance: 2)
        pddoi->wUsage: 36 (page: 1)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F3-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Collection 0 - Joystick
        pddoi->dwType: c0 (instance: 0)
        pddoi->wUsage: 4 (page: 1)
    StaticEnumObjectsCallback:
        pddoi->guidType: {A36D02F3-C9F3-11CF-BFC7-444553540000}
        pddoi->tszName: Collection 1 - Pointer
        pddoi->dwType: c0 (instance: 1)
        pddoi->wUsage: 1 (page: 1)
StaticEnumDeviceCallback:
    pdidi->dwDevType: 11 (subtype: 0)
    pdidi->tszProductName: Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse® 1.0A
StaticEnumDeviceCallback:
    pdidi->dwDevType: 11 (subtype: 0)
    pdidi->tszProductName: Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse® 1.0A

Log closed.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:11 am**

I'm gonna assume you didn't try this, but isn't there a sensitivity setting for your joystick in the game controller menu in your control panel?

It seems that the smallest deadzone setting is working fine for you, but that the sensitivity on the js is too high. Also there is an option in the game menu called linear or quadratic joystick and you'll want to toggle that to the other setting and see if it fixes your problem.

Overall it seems that it's not a deadzone setting issue as you say that the smallest setting works good for you. Also the deadzone settings haven't changed since R4 so nothing on that front is different.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:54 am**

small deadzone is what normal used to be. i have not had felt any differences and im sure (as imago can attest) that i am way more sensitive to change than you are

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:37 pm**

Smitty, No, my joystick doesn't come with software or sensitivity settings in control panel. When I mentioned this problem in the lobby, I was informed that the deadzones were altered. Then I was informed that the changes were made to make compatible more joystick varieties, which brought me to conclude that this was due to the joystick changes made to R5.

Edit: I have another identical joystick (new in the box) that I've tried and I still get the same results. I haven't heard back from Storm Strike yet.

Because alleg is the only game that offers that turret/zoom track experience, I can't test this in another game to determine if it's related to the machine, drivers, or perhaps the gameport/usb converter.

I'm going to test this in a vista installation and see if there's any change.

I'll report back. I hate to waste the devs time if this is something on my end. I would just like to know if there were changes to the deadzones so that I can rule that out. Also, were there any changes to the input values? Are those values stick specific?

I'll keep testing and chime back in.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:44 pm**

Wasp wrote:QUOTE (Wasp @ Nov 20 2009, 01:37 PM) Smitty, No, my joystick doesn't come with software.

Das was referring to the Game Controllers Menu in Control Panel - it's on every windows PC. maybe playing with the sensitivity in there may help?

The other thing is - In game - have you tried switching between Quadratic and Linear response? To see if that has any effect?

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:17 pm**

notjarvis,

there's nothing in control panel that I can do. The control panel offers only calibration options and this stick is self calibrating (MS Sidewinder 3D Pro).

I'll try the linear and quadratic options and see if that makes any difference. I've tested them in flight, however; I can't remember if I tested them in turret.

As I mentioned before, this would probably be unnoticed were it not for the zoom / track handicap while turretting. We all know what it's like to try to turret down a laggy mofo who's jumping around on the screen. Now imagine that reversed, instead of the ship jumping around on your screen, your reticule is instead doing the leaping and you're fighting to keep it on top of a moving target.

I think I should add that there is another issue beyond the stick and/or Alleg. Both Storm and I have a special adapter that converts our gameport joysticks to USB. I may be getting signaling issues from the converter which may be evident in the turret.

I don't want to waste anyone's time if this is on my end so I'm trying to rule out possibilities.

1. Are the deadzones in R5 exactly those of R4?

2. Were there any changes that would affect this stick in R5?

if the answers are "1. Yes, 2. No" then I can rule out R5 as being the culprit.

Thanks for all your patience.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:43 pm**

Smallest deadzone is pure sex. Currently I've dropped my JS sensitivity from 65% 60% (50 is default), and put a 1% deadzone from the control software. Much nicer than before.

I plan to tweak it so that I don't need the 1% deadzone by just lowering the sensitivity (it's like an adjustable "quadratic response" setting).

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:53 pm**

Adept,

I'd die to have that ability to change sensitivity like that. This stick is not best suited for DM as it is more difficult to manage (without sensitivity adjustments) vs a mouse, however; I believe that this stick is by far the best thing in a turret. (when you're not chasing a jumping reticule).

I'm taking apart my adapter and testing the individual components to see if I've got a failing part.

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Joystick doesn't respond properly