Do NOT suggest changes to the game engine here

juckto · Post by **juckto** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:01 am

The community core deals with game balance.

This forum is for discussing stuff like how many hitpoints a scout should have, how much a bomber should cost, and whether Omicron Hive is ever going to be released.

It is NOT for topics like "add a /reason to #mutiny"; "There should be more types of GA and upgrades"; or "How do I make my model have gunmounts?".

Put it in the wrong place and I will lock it. I will not shift it to the correct place for you because that will just make you even lazier.

Post by **FreeBeer** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:30 pm

In other words:

Download ICE, run it. See all the data? That data is what a core dev has the ability to change. Anything outside of what's possible in ICE is very likely off-topic.

Vlymoxyd · Post by **Vlymoxyd** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:00 pm

I think we need a special forum for engine change that have an impact on gameplay closer to the CC forums. If I was a FAZ dev, I'd be more willing to work on something that I know was accepted by the CC team and would be used than something that I might have a chance to be used.

KGJV · Post by **KGJV** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:09 pm

been there Vly.

There is a HUGE lack of communication between the CC team and the dev team, actually it's zero if not negative...

It's like a big company where departments don't communicate at all, producing no synergy.

Locking topics that entail code change but talk about balance isn't a good idea at all.

We all view the CC forum as the BALANCE forum (also because there is no balance forum) and some code changes can affect balance so they should be discussed here 1st. Even more if these changes add more options to the core so we don't have more fiascoes like the one-sided aleph rez.

The 'one-sided aleph rez' fiasco: this code change was made because some day someone pointed out that a basic starting scout with basic prox1 could ruin the large shield of an expensive cruiser and so this was a big balance issue. Although they're many ways to fix this issue (which is still not fixed btw), allowing one-sided rez was a way of fixing this because it also gave a more general solution to the 'caps are vulnerable to aleph camping' issue. So the code change was made and the option enabled in ICE and cores. But actually no one ever cared to actually add a single-sided rez to a core. epic fail

I even wonder how many people who are in charge of balancing CC know about this feature...

Whatever, this is just an anecdote to illustrate my point about the need to communicate both ways and having a central place instead of 2 or 3 forums is very important.
It will avoid 'code changes that no one will ever use' as well as,in the other way, 'complex or odd core changes' to fix a balance issue that could have been fixed with a simple code change (well this requires that the CC team actually communicate about their problems and ask for code changes instead of sticking to the 'if it can't be done with ICE then it can't be done at all' behavior

)

madpeople · Post by **madpeople** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:34 pm

KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ Oct 3 2009, 11:09 PM) There is a HUGE lack of communication between the CC team and the dev team, actually it's zero if not negative...

It's like a big company where departments don't communicate at all, producing no synergy.

kg has very good points here.

There are code changes, and then there are code changes which affect balance (which the community is supposed to discuss anyway I believe). This being the community core, and thus the only core we officially / mainly care about balancing it makes sense that if someone wants to change something to improve the CC that involves a code change, that it should be discussed here, rather than pushed off to the depths of the dev forums to never be seen again as the devs don't know that if they code it it will be used (- a waste of time for them).

Now, this particuar forum is for core changes, so perhaps a sub forum for proposed code changes which affect balance could be put as a child forum of this section?

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:26 am

KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ Oct 3 2009, 06:09 PM) I even wonder how many people who are in charge of balancing CC know about this feature...

All of us

Xeretov · Post by **Xeretov** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:02 am

KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ Oct 3 2009, 06:09 PM) There is a HUGE lack of communication between the CC team and the dev team, actually it's zero if not negative...

I'm sure if we wanted a feature for the core, and it required a code change, we'd ask for it.

I personally can't think of any we do though, which is why there hasn't been any 'communication' to the FAZ devs from CC. Most of the suggestions made in this forum that required code changes have been either poorly thought out, or we didn't feel a need to implement them into CC. As I pointed out the last time this came up, we aren't going to waste the FAZ team's time asking for changes we don't plan to use.

That doesn't stop other people from making core-related code requests that they want to see, but I hope they don't expect us to put it into CC just because they asked for the option to be there.

Andon · Post by **Andon** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:38 am

If the rest of the CC team wants something coded, they only need to ask me and I can relay it to the Dev team.

However, as Xeretov said, the only reason there's no communication between the teams is that the CC team has had nothing that needs a code change. Other people have had suggestions, but they're generally stuff that we're not going to include into the CC.

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:19 pm

kage is being stupid.

i read the dev forum daily. and i post in there.

and i talk to the dev zl

badpazzword · Post by **badpazzword** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:10 pm

Vlymoxyd wrote:QUOTE (Vlymoxyd @ Oct 3 2009, 05:00 PM) I think we need a special forum for engine change that have an impact on gameplay closer to the CC forums.

Add your suggestions here.