I need some help with ICE

Core Editor
juckto
Posts: 2332
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:00 am
Location: NZ

Post by juckto »

I'm fooling around in ICE and I need some help with toggling the defs.

I set myself a pretty simple exercise: Duplicate the IC faction (and call it 'trial faction') and duplicate the heavy outpost (and call it 'trial base'). So now both factions can build both bases - I want to change it so they can only build their respective versions.

That's where I'm struggling.

I want to find an unused prerequisite and let the trial base depend on it, and the trial faction define it, correct?
Done that, but when it comes to letting the trial faction define it seems I can only add it to the 'no devel' defs.
Last edited by juckto on Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Usually though, "skill" is used to covertly mean "match the game exactly to my level of competence." Anyone who is at all worse than me should fail utterly (and humorously!) and anyone better is clearly too caught up in the game and their opinions shouldn't count.
Xeretov
Posts: 1633
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Xeretov »

For factions, the "Toggle Pre" button adds/removes preqs from Devel on.

The "Toggle Def" button adds/removes preqs from Devel off.


For your example, you want to add the unused def to both Devel on and off and then have it as a preq. for the base.

Go to the faction in the faction list, then tech tree, enter the def number then hit both toggle pre and toggle def.

Then go to your base and also enter the number for the pre. Do not enter it as a def.

Edit: Just noticed a silly typo. Fixed for posterity.
Last edited by Xeretov on Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
juckto
Posts: 2332
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:00 am
Location: NZ

Post by juckto »

Cheers
Image
Usually though, "skill" is used to covertly mean "match the game exactly to my level of competence." Anyone who is at all worse than me should fail utterly (and humorously!) and anyone better is clearly too caught up in the game and their opinions shouldn't count.
juckto
Posts: 2332
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:00 am
Location: NZ

Post by juckto »

New question; I want a bit of a heads-up before I try customising ship loadouts.

How do usage masks relate to loadouts? Or, what the hell do they do?



Also, as a minor aside, how come Noir's hvy scout dual launchers ran into problems, but the cruiser's* hunter-killer swarm (which launches five) doesn't? Is it a CVH thing?

(* or whichever ship it was)
Image
Usually though, "skill" is used to covertly mean "match the game exactly to my level of competence." Anyone who is at all worse than me should fail utterly (and humorously!) and anyone better is clearly too caught up in the game and their opinions shouldn't count.
Xeretov
Posts: 1633
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Xeretov »

juckto wrote:QUOTE (juckto @ Aug 7 2009, 12:15 AM) How do usage masks relate to loadouts? Or, what the hell do they do?
Usage masks form the different weapon 'classes' so to speak. It is a clunky system, especially because we have a limited number of them to work with. On the other hand, it makes it easier to add in new weapons of the same class without having to go and find/update all of the ships that should load it.

Every weapon must have at least one mask to be usable. Ship loadouts are configured by these masks, not by the individual weapons. Example: EW Util, Gauss and Sniper are all under mask 5. Any ship that can load one of these will be able to load the others as well. This is why all Stealth Fighters can mount these weapons, as mask 5 is enabled for them. If you were to add something else (say, Gat Gun) to mask 5, then all SFs would be able to load that too. By the same note, mask 5 is disabled for Interceptors so they cannot load these weapons.

There are separate mask sets for Countermeasures, Missiles, Boosters, Shields, Cloaks, Weapons and Dispenser items.

When modifying Selectable weapons or items on a ship in ICE, you only have to select one item/weapon in a set for that mask to be enabled. Click on the "Edit" checkbox in the top right to go into edit mode. Scroll down until you find the mask with the items you're looking for, select one and click on the "edit" box again. However, the inverse is true when turning them off: You have to deselect ALL of the items in a mask to disable it for a ship. Make sure you hit Save before you move on to a different ship.

Example: Lets say I want to let an Adv. Fighter load the SF weapons. I click the edit box, scroll down until I see them (EW Util Can for example), click on one and then click edit again. After saving, I decide I don't want to do that. I have to edit it again, and deselect all of the items from the mask (In this case, Util, sniper and Gauss all have to be toggled off) then hit edit again and save.


QUOTE Also, as a minor aside, how come Noir's hvy scout dual launchers ran into problems, but the cruiser's* hunter-killer swarm (which launches five) doesn't? Is it a CVH thing?[/quote]
You'll have to bother somebody more into modeling, but IIRC the problem with the dual launchers was that the missiles would hit each other. Either at or after launch, I'm not sure. The killer swarm fires out in a wide fan though, so the missiles are almost incapable of hitting each other. Unfortunately they also seem incapable of hitting the target from what I remember in testing.
Broodwich
Posts: 5662
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:48 am
Location: Raincity

Post by Broodwich »

last time i used dual fire missles they didnt hit anything because they fanned out super wide
QUOTE Drizzo: ha ha good old chap
Drizzo: i am a brit
Drizzo: tut tut
Drizzo: wankarrrrrr
Drizzo: i only have sex whilst in the missionary position[/quote] Fas est et ab hoste doceri - Ovid
Compellor
Posts: 994
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:56 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Post by Compellor »

I'm not sure that the swarm has no problems, but if two of the five missiles collide it's not as big a deal as two of two missiles colliding. It may also have something to do with the spread ("salvo ratio") of the missiles - killer swarm missiles may have an initial launch direction more than 28 degrees off-axis, whereas a standard seeker missile has a "salvo ratio" a tenth of that. DN 4.44 had dual seekers with a salvo ratio of .25, meaning 14 degrees. So it's probably the number of missiles that makes killer swarm more workable. Also, hardly anyone ever uses killer swarm anyway, and tests by the CC team have shown that it's probably not worth the bother. It may be upgraded, replaced, or removed when we finally decide what to do with Shipyard.

As for usage masks, I've not played with them a lot, but as far as I know here's how it works:
quickfire123, seeker123, and zeus all have box 0 checked. This means any ship that can mount seeker 1 can also mount any of those other 6 missiles if they pick it up. This is why, if you deselect seeker and zeus in the loadout editor, then leave edit mode, they will reselect themselves: selecting one in a group selects them all. Whether you can mount those missiles in the loading screen depends on devels and successors.

Generally, parts should not have more than one box checked. If your new missile, "sidewinder," has boxes 1 and 2 checked, then your new fighter would need to be able to mount both hunters (1) and ABs (2). Bombers would be able to mount sidewinders, but stealth fighters and figbees would not.

Generally, all parts of a given name (e.g. ews probe 1, 2, and 3) should have the same usage mask box checked, unless you really want ships that can use ews probe 1 not to be able to pick up and mount ews probe 3.

Damnit Xer lol.
Last edited by Compellor on Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
Andon
Posts: 5453
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:29 pm
Location: Maryland, USA
Contact:

Post by Andon »

another thing about swarm/multiple launch missiles: You can work a narrower "spread' if you increase the launch velocity, since missiles seem to "travel" a little bit before actually appearing. Additionally, they always will have issues in hitting things, especially close things - the Faction X swarmer practically can't hit more than a few missiles at less than half ange, and they're QF agility on steroids.
Image
ImageImage
juckto
Posts: 2332
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:00 am
Location: NZ

Post by juckto »

Thanks this is all very useful ... but I'm not finished yet ;)

Consider the giga gs. If you get it before SC1 then it is armed with AC1. But once you have researched SC1 pressing 'default loadout' will replace the AC with SC.

I'm trying to recreate that effect (researching a new kind of weapon will change the default loadout), but it's just not happening. What am I missing?
Last edited by juckto on Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Usually though, "skill" is used to covertly mean "match the game exactly to my level of competence." Anyone who is at all worse than me should fail utterly (and humorously!) and anyone better is clearly too caught up in the game and their opinions shouldn't count.
Andon
Posts: 5453
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:29 pm
Location: Maryland, USA
Contact:

Post by Andon »

Probably the order in the list when it is "un"sorted. Is SC1 above AC1 when unsorted? Try this (Don't have ICE at the moment and am too lazy to get it)
Image
ImageImage
Post Reply