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as it currently stands, they are the only playable factions on a competitive environment. so, is there any short term goal to enlarge the list?

the main concerns:

TF:

slow speed, weak miners and constructors. this leads to a extremely weak opening, with scouts maxing at 130 mps and constructors at 45. not having other thing than scouts might be remediable but constructors should have at least 1.5 times the hull they have now, and scouts should start adv or at least have 10 more top speed.

giga:

i like the whole economic thing aspect of this faction but seriously, for the @#(! you get if you don't spend all your money permanently just to keep up with basic tech... i suggest they either start with patties researched (possibly with lt booster), all mk0 tech researched (seriously, giga is too weak), cheaper calltrops and towers, ability to buy regular outposts, even if they are a not as cheap as Lt., lxy individual craft reduced to 400/ship or even less, spec mines reduced research cost (to maybe 3/4 or even a half, i'm not joking about this), a possible full shipyard without the adv tech requirement (just regular tech), and ability to buy LT. you think this would balance giga? think again. they will be barely playable.

bios:

again, i like the concept of 10 min research but it is just not possible to compete with the rest of factions. i propose starting with enhanced cons, so at least they have a serious chance to do something in the opening, maybe give them 75 secs cons instead of 60, but they should get stronger in the opening.

gt:

the figs. give them twice the hull (again, NOT joking) or trim their model.

dreg:

the ints need an extreme makeover. you need to trim the model too.


i'm serious about this, all this factions need a BIG change to become usable.

This thread is off topic

it's a serious thread. the amount of unbalance between the three top tier factions and the rest is just not possible to solve with small adjustments

tf have the strongest miners and cons tied only with gt

you mean the never planting ones ? or the non existent ones? and the miners, the rip skill is super @#(!. i'd take a miner with .25 more hull any day.

Giga gets free enh cons + miners. Their cons are almost as fast as dreg enh cons (for free!). If you wanna give them patties lower their starting money a bit.

TF just needs more help defending early on. Perking plas gen might do the trick. Or maybe start TF with lt booster?

GT is just as strong as belts imo.

Bios is uber. It's just not a small map faction.

Dreg has a strong opening game and strong endgame. You wanna perk the fastest ints in the game?

you say weak when they have 1.0 hull and 1.0 shield, so i guess second 3rd strongest behind belts. Thought tf had 1.1 shield but w/e

Dark_Sponge wrote:QUOTE (Dark_Sponge @ Feb 7 2009, 10:54 PM) Giga gets free enh cons + miners. Their cons are almost as fast as dreg enh cons (for free!). If you wanna give them patties lower their starting money a bit.

i bet that they are fast! who cares? their opening is the @#(!tiest of all factions. in an sg they are doomed to fail unless the skill gap between the squads is abysmal. you apparently don't understand the magnitude of suck they are immersed in.

QUOTE TF just needs more help defending early on. Perking plas gen might do the trick. Or maybe start TF with lt booster?[/quote]

this makes me think

QUOTE GT is just as strong as belts imo.[/quote]

and this confirms, you have barely started to grasp gameplay mechanics


QUOTE Bios is uber. It's just not a small map faction.[/quote]

not uber. at all. barely mediocre.

QUOTE Dreg has a strong opening game and strong endgame. You wanna perk the fastest ints in the game?[/quote]

probably the one that approaches the most to the top 3 factions but still a long way away from being good. by the way, why do you care if ints are fast, if they die 3 to 1 in an opening con dogfight (on equal teams)?

i suggest you start from scratch and learn the game (again, if you ever did), before posting more BS.

End of transmission.

It's not necessarily the secondary factions suck, it's the fine line between those 3 factions and the other factions.

So the question is, would u want to decrease the amount of cheese, or increase it?

Most people want increased.
So of course, we would have to balance Giga, TF, GT, Bios, and Dreg.

Remember the word "balance", mainly means, they have the ability to compete in SQUAD GAMES.
Not in no means PUG's.
In PUG's, the level of "fail", is substantianally higher than in SG's, which leads to the crappy factions having a chance of winning.

So with that out of the way, suggestions like these are actual starting points:

Giga
You'll mostly see IC in SG's.
And it's clear Giga will not have an average opening, if the opposing squad is in fact half good.
- Patty as a standard ship, along with Lt. Booster, and still with the minepack standard as well.
- All MK0 Tech standard
- Keep the Lt. Bases
- Keep the $500 cost for Lxy's
- Keep the costs for Towers and Caltrops
- .50% reduce costs for Spec Mines
- Keep there Shipyard

- Make the miner capacity normal, since Giga would rely on Spec Mines as there ending economy, with the 50% cost reduction.

With this, Giga would do at least average against other Factions in a SG.

TF
- Make the Lt. Booster already available to TF at the start
- But DO NOT perk plas gens lol. (In big PUG's plas gens are the @#(!, drop a whole bunch of them, and they do all the work for you in Bomber D, Bomber O, or whatever).

The booster would make the Scouts do a bit better in sector battles. Like the Bios, all u need to have is good d in the begginning, then the cheese would come.

GT
- Perk there Figs, by making there booster just a bit better. It doesn't have to be alot, but just enough to make them Fighters. I mean, lets face it, there boosters are so @#(!ty, making them feel like basic scouts.
- Don't double there hull, or they would be acting like a clone faction to Belters. Instead make there tech cheaper to .75, and make them have a perk on maneuvarbility like the Bios. They're a faction with "old" tech, so I think "old" ships would of had more maneuvarability instead of more guns. Make them 1.3 Ship turn torque. This idea is enforced by the Real life Spitfire, which was one of the best airplanes ever made for there specific times they were created.

Bios
I think Bios is fine the way it is. The reason why nobody wans them in SG's is because comms are afraid of losing there opening con to Rix Figs or IC ints AND how long it takes to get adv tech and defend urself to bomb runs. But really Bios Figs are pretty good with there cloakable ability, ship turn torque, ship shield regeneration, and not to mention minepacks. And also, u have to have at least one Faction that has a weak start, but strong ending. Also the start for Bios isn't all that bad either, if u get ur opening con planted, you would be getting bbrs soon enough with the tech cost reduction. With bbrs at the 10-15 min mark almost all the time, you can get on the offensive and extend the SG even longer. And also, Bios has uber bbrs... Cloak and sig can make all the difference.

Dreg
I'm open to suggestions?


Critisism is open.

the reason these factions suck, with the exception of dreg, is that they are comeback factions. Most squad games are decided in the first 10 minutes. Dreg just sucks because their int models are giant rectanges, their gunmounts obscure half your screen when you fire them, and they have slow, weak miners and expensive tech. They dont have bonuses like ic does with extra ammo or decent hitboxes or decent gunmounts.