Shivan Faction Idea
Well, it seems to matter relative to the size of the thrust bitmap. Essentially, you have to make the ship to be the size you want in the program, then divide that by the thruster radius.
Anyway, I've been looking at the scale issue again now that I understand it. The bombers and transport will definitely have to be scaled down so that they can land on the existing bases. At 50+ meters in length, their cross section is much larger than that of the other medium craft. The small craft will all retain their size from FS2. If I make the Moloch 300m long like the other carriers, the landing bay looks a little small, but it should be fine. The landing bays of the other caps will have to be inoperable, as I stated earlier. An IC fig's wingspan is wider than the 350m Lucifer's docking bay. The Moloch looks a little weird being the same length as the Demon, but what can you do? The Ravana and Demon are close enough in length (in FS2) that I'll probably make the Ravana 300m long and the Demon 274m long, making it the shortest cruiser. The demon is bulkier than other cruisers, though.
The Rakshasa, Cain, and Lilith are an interesting issue. Making the Cain 75m long makes sense, but that would mean the Lilith, a "Lt Frigate," is also 75m long, whereas the other frigates are 200m. If I scale the Rakshasa relative to the Cain, that would make it 138m long, by far the longest corvette, and nearly as big as an assault ship. I guess I'll just make it like 80m long or something.
If I give the Sathanas 4 forward cannons, one at each forward prong, it isn't going to be able to hit anything. The Lucifer has a similar issue. Perhaps I'll give the Sath a mass driver where the forward heavy flak cannons should be. Lucy's twin flux cannons might be replaced by a central SkyRip cannon.
Anyway, I've been looking at the scale issue again now that I understand it. The bombers and transport will definitely have to be scaled down so that they can land on the existing bases. At 50+ meters in length, their cross section is much larger than that of the other medium craft. The small craft will all retain their size from FS2. If I make the Moloch 300m long like the other carriers, the landing bay looks a little small, but it should be fine. The landing bays of the other caps will have to be inoperable, as I stated earlier. An IC fig's wingspan is wider than the 350m Lucifer's docking bay. The Moloch looks a little weird being the same length as the Demon, but what can you do? The Ravana and Demon are close enough in length (in FS2) that I'll probably make the Ravana 300m long and the Demon 274m long, making it the shortest cruiser. The demon is bulkier than other cruisers, though.
The Rakshasa, Cain, and Lilith are an interesting issue. Making the Cain 75m long makes sense, but that would mean the Lilith, a "Lt Frigate," is also 75m long, whereas the other frigates are 200m. If I scale the Rakshasa relative to the Cain, that would make it 138m long, by far the longest corvette, and nearly as big as an assault ship. I guess I'll just make it like 80m long or something.
If I give the Sathanas 4 forward cannons, one at each forward prong, it isn't going to be able to hit anything. The Lucifer has a similar issue. Perhaps I'll give the Sath a mass driver where the forward heavy flak cannons should be. Lucy's twin flux cannons might be replaced by a central SkyRip cannon.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
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RHINO_Mk_II
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:47 am
- Location: Dallas, TX
As an avid FS1 fan, I have a suggestion:
If I recall correctly, their missiles were about average but they carried fewer of them, relying instead on powerful direct fire weapons.
You could try decreasing missile count and increasing standard ammo amount and/or perking the damage slightly.
Of course, this would not apply to bombers, which could fire plenty of Anti-capital missiles.
In the case of interceptor shielding, I would recommend a new class of shield with a decent strength but extremely slow regeneration.
This makes it more similar to the hull strength it would be substituting for, but also has the effect that ints would need to fly higher-sig to be effective.
Of course, you could just give the custom shield generator a low signature rating.
In the case of most Shivan craft, I assume you want a very high shield regen.
If I recall correctly, their missiles were about average but they carried fewer of them, relying instead on powerful direct fire weapons.
You could try decreasing missile count and increasing standard ammo amount and/or perking the damage slightly.
Of course, this would not apply to bombers, which could fire plenty of Anti-capital missiles.
In the case of interceptor shielding, I would recommend a new class of shield with a decent strength but extremely slow regeneration.
This makes it more similar to the hull strength it would be substituting for, but also has the effect that ints would need to fly higher-sig to be effective.
Of course, you could just give the custom shield generator a low signature rating.
In the case of most Shivan craft, I assume you want a very high shield regen.
Last edited by RHINO_Mk_II on Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you can choose to be decisive or correct, always choose decisive. Otherwise, this can happen to you:
"Totus vestri substructio es erus nobis iam"
"Totus vestri substructio es erus nobis iam"
Bathawk: Y'know, somehow I just wasn't thinking about that. Without shields, minor bases are pretty easy to galv, even with reasonable hull buff. Hmm, I'm gonna have to think about that for a bit.
RHINO: Missile capacity... I'm not really seeing it, but then I'm thinking in FS2 terms, where the Mara and Seraphim are prominent, and have plenty of missiles.
In the beginning of FS1 their primary weapons seemed powerful, but by the end they were unimpressive, and in FS2 they were downright weak. That's why I'm planning to make the Shivans have weak primaries and standard missiles. Not sure if .9 is too low, but then it's hard to balance these things without playtesting.
I don't think the Shivans had any higher shield regen than the Terrans did in percentage terms, just thicker shields.
Interceptors I've given much reduced hull and medium shields. That makes it a very different ship from the standard interceptor, but it still fulfills its primary role of guns-focused king of the dogfight. I don't see the need for a reduced regen shield, especially since disruptors will go through these guys like a hot knife through butter. Trying to out-dogfight the Shivans with Expansion is maybe not the best choice.
Shields and hull are something I'm playing with. Right now I've got it at .75 hull, 1.3 shield, 1.56 regen. The point is 1) to make bombers easy to spike without making the other ships easier to kill, and 2) take into consideration the FS2 standard of 2% shield regen. Right now small shield 3 and medium shield 1 are at 2%, while medium shield 3 is at 3%. I haven't decided whether miners and cons will retain their shields, or have thick hulls like the capships.
I'd be curious to know where you think the line is on shield regen, Andon, especially if the hull is so weak. If I reduced the shield modifier to 1.1 rather than 1.3, then regen would be at 1.32, which is about the same as TF. That would mean that Shivan ss1 adv figs have just 503 hp, compared to 540 for Bios. Oddly enough, basic scout hp would be the same.
On an unrelated note, I've arbitrarily come up with an econ for them:
Starting$: -0.075
Cost: 1.15
Capacity: 1.15
He3 speed: 1.1
He3 yield: 0.95
Payday: 0.15
RHINO: Missile capacity... I'm not really seeing it, but then I'm thinking in FS2 terms, where the Mara and Seraphim are prominent, and have plenty of missiles.
In the beginning of FS1 their primary weapons seemed powerful, but by the end they were unimpressive, and in FS2 they were downright weak. That's why I'm planning to make the Shivans have weak primaries and standard missiles. Not sure if .9 is too low, but then it's hard to balance these things without playtesting.
I don't think the Shivans had any higher shield regen than the Terrans did in percentage terms, just thicker shields.
Interceptors I've given much reduced hull and medium shields. That makes it a very different ship from the standard interceptor, but it still fulfills its primary role of guns-focused king of the dogfight. I don't see the need for a reduced regen shield, especially since disruptors will go through these guys like a hot knife through butter. Trying to out-dogfight the Shivans with Expansion is maybe not the best choice.
Shields and hull are something I'm playing with. Right now I've got it at .75 hull, 1.3 shield, 1.56 regen. The point is 1) to make bombers easy to spike without making the other ships easier to kill, and 2) take into consideration the FS2 standard of 2% shield regen. Right now small shield 3 and medium shield 1 are at 2%, while medium shield 3 is at 3%. I haven't decided whether miners and cons will retain their shields, or have thick hulls like the capships.
I'd be curious to know where you think the line is on shield regen, Andon, especially if the hull is so weak. If I reduced the shield modifier to 1.1 rather than 1.3, then regen would be at 1.32, which is about the same as TF. That would mean that Shivan ss1 adv figs have just 503 hp, compared to 540 for Bios. Oddly enough, basic scout hp would be the same.
On an unrelated note, I've arbitrarily come up with an econ for them:
Starting$: -0.075
Cost: 1.15
Capacity: 1.15
He3 speed: 1.1
He3 yield: 0.95
Payday: 0.15
Last edited by Compellor on Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
Hrm... What I've found with balancing is that it just doesn't work with adding up numbers. IT's a PITA to do, but the only reliable way to do it is with testing.
Having way out there numbers on some things will make it a real PITA to balance - but since you're nerfing the hull and increasing the shields, overall I think it might work with some tweaking
Having way out there numbers on some things will make it a real PITA to balance - but since you're nerfing the hull and increasing the shields, overall I think it might work with some tweaking
Well, I certainly didn't expect adding up numbers to work perfectly, but I have to have a reasonable starting point.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
Alright, I've thought about the galving issue a bit. While doing so I also realized that with such thin shields it would be too easy to nerve gas the thing, so I'll need shields of all stations to be at least 556 (673 with missile damage GAs), meaning I won't be setting station shields to 1 anymore.
Anyway, galving. If shields are going to be so thin, I suppose I'll have to make the hull of minor bases ungalvable. That said, I don't want to make them duplicates of the IC hvy bases. What I could do is give them major base hull and minor base shields. The point is to make EMP cannon/Basic TT tactics useful. Come to think of it, setting shields to 1 would make that tactic far too easy; the new shield value should work well. Anyway, I'm not sure what kind of other stats I'd give to the bases, seems like a delicate thing to balance.
There is an alternative: a new armor class. It could work, and work well, but somehow I'm wary of it.
Anyway, galving. If shields are going to be so thin, I suppose I'll have to make the hull of minor bases ungalvable. That said, I don't want to make them duplicates of the IC hvy bases. What I could do is give them major base hull and minor base shields. The point is to make EMP cannon/Basic TT tactics useful. Come to think of it, setting shields to 1 would make that tactic far too easy; the new shield value should work well. Anyway, I'm not sure what kind of other stats I'd give to the bases, seems like a delicate thing to balance.
There is an alternative: a new armor class. It could work, and work well, but somehow I'm wary of it.
Last edited by Compellor on Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players