XRM

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Kltplzyxm
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Post by Kltplzyxm »

Either that or make XRM cost money per rack/missile. You pay for TP2 and you pay for XRM. Messing up on TP2/XRM drops cost a penalty, and you TP2 leapfrogging to another techbase is not so easy then.

Without XRM, there's not much SUP can do vs EXP/HINT/PP unless I'm mistaken.
Death3D
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Post by Death3D »

Mmmm... I know this might sound ridiculous, I'm just throwing it up there for review, maybe it encourages further ideas.

How about XRM's only afflict a base's hull, but not it's shields? We could then add a weapon for figs that lower any base's shields, but don't harm the hull at all. This way, you'd need more than just doing a drop somewhere to succesfully do stuff. You'd need true coordination of a fighter team with a bbr team, all of them directed by a tp2 scout. I know it stays unusable in small games, but it's a possible way.

Also, it might lead to some interesting strats like helping on regular bbr runs by lowering shields before the run comes in.
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Kltplzyxm
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Post by Kltplzyxm »

Meh.... i'm not so into it. I see XRM as a weapon mainly against EXP. Making it so that shields need to be galv actually makes XRM weaker vs. EXP or GS and prone to all kinds of snafu's. It would require that figs galv base shields and that takes time. 4K drops would be pointless. Hvy Int mg3 (HINT3 anyone?) can take out the galvers before the XRM bbrs could become effective. Plus, SUP comms would have to buy Galv before they can XRM. They're already having to pay for TP2 and XRM, and you want to make them buy galvs first?
Last edited by Kltplzyxm on Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Drizzo
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Post by Drizzo »

spideycw wrote:
QUOTE (spideycw @ Dec 5 2007, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do address Drizzo's points: I find it amusing how you say "an exp team can..." What about tech paths that are NOT exp?

Now for the record I'm only playing Devil's Advocate here, I really don't like XRMs as well, but I do (as a commander) enjoy Sup, and I feel that XRMs do tend to make life easier because it is relatively simple to pull off, and it provides an end-game option to a more or less stalemated game.

That being said, yes I did say "an exp team can..." for a few points, because Tac and Sup vs XRM usually tend to fare better in the points before the "coming storm", if you will. As you know, Tac's jobs is to kill utility, and eventually get stealth bombers and wipe the map. A sup team can not get XRMs if they have no miners. Chances are a commander is not focused on attempting to XRM a base, if to their knowledge, they have 5 SBs ready to go on their sup and garrison.

In a Sup vs Sup game, usually it's a race to Galvs and who can dominate the map first. The more aggressive sup team usually wins out here. The general tactic with Sup on Sup games is to dominate the map, get a secondary or even tertiary tech, then get some sort of end game up and running. Be it Stealth Bombers, HTTs with hull2 hvy ints escorting, or even TP2+XRM. If the game appears to be stalemated struggle between two even commanders, chances are that they would be hesitant with buying each other tech. Because if one team shoots for XRMs and fails, what's stopping the other team from taking that tech and slapping them in the face with it?

The general idea here is that to beat XRMs, you have to be more aggressive vs a supremecy team. If you don't bend a sup team over and spank them with a kendo stick, then they will whip out XRMs and be very nasty to you.
cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Oct 16 2010, 02:48 AM) Interceptors are fun because without one, Drizzo would be physically incapable of entering a sector.
Youngmoose
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Post by Youngmoose »

I'm only posting so that Moltar, Space Ghost, and Brak are all right in a row. I miss Adult Swim. We need someone with a Zorak avatar. But sorry for the interruption, great discussion. I'm enjoying it thoroughly. Carry on.
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takingarms1
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Post by takingarms1 »

TheBored wrote:
QUOTE (TheBored @ Dec 5 2007, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just apply all of the arguments against galvs here. Unless something is changed drastically, Galvs and XRMs will suck hard in small games but stay dominant in large games.


The big difference between galvs and XRMs is that galvs don't kill tech bases - that's what balances galv (well, sort of, to some degree).

XRM are hella expensive to get, needing both adv garr and adv sup, hvy bbrs, etc. They also take a long time to research. If there is going to be a balance achieved, I think the only way to do it is to lengthen the time/expensive in obtaining XRM. Thus, the only valid defense against XRM is to beat the other team before they can get it and use it.

The tweak I might suggest would be adding one more requirement to research before getting XRM to slow down time to tech. Say, forcing research of AB3, or adding some place-holder (like XRM Technology) that must be researched before XRM abs. Either that, or make it more expensive. Or maybe both.

That said, I would suggest a very small nerf, if any, considering the time to tech and expense already necessary to get XRM.
Last edited by takingarms1 on Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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spideycw
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Post by spideycw »

I see several ways to nerf XRM.

-Lower the damage or make some sort of scaling depending on how many people are in game
-Eliminate them
-Make it so you can carry fewer per rack. 1 (2 for 'Nix)
-Make XRM costlier or take longer to get
-Eliminate them

To address Takingarms point about it being the only way sup can beat exp...Sup beat exp for 5 years using things like decoy tp2 drops, deprobing before bomb runs, etc etc. Why not now?
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takingarms1
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Post by takingarms1 »

I don't think it was me who said XRM was the only way sup could beat exp. That said, I thought there was a pretty strong feeling that sup generally sucked vs exp before XRM came along.

But I see where you're coming from spidey - if the team is competent XRM runs are pretty much impossible to stop. It's like galv, only you can kill tech bases too.

Also fewer per rack is a pretty good idea for a nerf, but it would have the perverse effect of nerfing them quite a bit for smaller games while not doing a whole lot for nerfing them in bigger games.

Doesn't any kind of scaling require code changes?
Last edited by takingarms1 on Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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guitarism
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Post by guitarism »

I like the idea of lowering the number of XRM's per rack. IT seems like the easiest way to get the desired results.
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Drizzo
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Post by Drizzo »

How about this.

XRMs come 1 per rack, and it takes significantly longer to reload because of the size and fuel requirements of each missile. (Realistic excuse for a nerf)

Problem solved.
cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Oct 16 2010, 02:48 AM) Interceptors are fun because without one, Drizzo would be physically incapable of entering a sector.
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