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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:03 pm
by Cadillac
Bunnywabbit wrote:QUOTE (Bunnywabbit @ Jan 31 2012, 10:33 AM) now for the slippery slopes (Cookie even called it so and didn't realize that that means the argument is flawed: bad Cookie!):
"people will resign when they know they're beaten and it won't be fun anymore" -> "People will resign SG's after the first con loss" -> "they'll resign after the first minute" -> "Allegiance will die" -> "the world will end": There are many reasons to play besides winning. Learning, for instance, or because it's fun to play with your squadmates, and against friends in the opposing squad. Because it's fun to play higher level gameplay. all sorts of reasons. To say that people would resign at minute #1 if they were allowed to against a stronger team, is to say people would commit mass suicide if their ethics system allowed it, because every life must end in death.
In short: To pretend that the only thing keeping a squadgame going after the loss of the first con is the unwritten rule against resigns, is stupid.
As you bloody well know.
Reductio ad absurdum, bunny.
My point is merely that SGs, while not exactly being "professional" games, should be played to a higher standard than PUGs. By that I mean not just in gameplay but conduct, too. Like Idan said, it is unsporting to resign when you are losing. Let the winning team have their victory. If they are failing to end the game because of incompetence then that is another matter altogether. I am not saying that teams will inevitably resign after they lose their opening cons, I regrettably used the infamous 9 minute example because it
has happened in the past. I am saying that SGs may devolve into a lot of games being resigned if resigning becomes an accepted practice, because really what's the point of waiting for the other team to get a bomber out and come to your base?
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:14 pm
by spideycw
Those in favor of resigning being okay are the same people who always failed the kobayashi maru. I am captain kirk.
http://kirkisunbeatable.ytmnd.com/
Nsfw link; for fuzzy
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:15 pm
by Icky
spideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ Jan 31 2012, 10:14 AM) Those in favor of resigning being okay are the same people who always failed the kobayashi maru. I am captain kirk.
http://kirkisunbeatable.ytmnd.com/
So you cheat?
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:17 pm
by HSharp
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Jan 31 2012, 03:03 PM) I am not saying that teams will inevitably resign after they lose their opening cons, I regrettably used the infamous 9 minute example because it has happened in the past.
The 9 min resign didn't have any opening cons being lost iirc.
Was more of a case of Fed going, hmm can't let SysX get exp or they will def win, then SysX got an exp so Fed resigned. I am sure if spidey was informed of that before hand we would have gone IC Tac.
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:23 pm
by Dome
Icky wrote:QUOTE (Icky @ Jan 31 2012, 06:56 AM) I say this as someone who hasn't played in an SG in over a year, so obviously copious amounts of salt are recommended before consuming, but...
Accepting resigns in SGs discourages what we (used to) consider "squad level" play. If SysX knows that NI will resign after defeat is "inevitable", and the last 4 games they played that meant in the first 30 mins or whatever, what incentive is there for the SysX folks to show up to play?
If you're just going to roll over, please don't waste the other squad's time by scheduling a game.
Would you watch a boxing match where as soon as the underdog gets knocked down his corner throws in the towel?
Would you want to see a race where as soon as someone gets lapped by the leader they just drop out of the race?
Would you want to see a football game where the losing team quits at halftime because they are down 40 points?
If you're planning to quit then please just $#@!ing quit before you start.
Sysx wanted to play vs us. We obliged. They in turn showed up 25 minutes late, making us wait.
We didn't resign after our first con died, or second, or third. We played 90% of the game with one sector; our home. Finally got a con to plant (next to our home), mined there for a bit wondering why it was sysx still had reg ints.. then they showed heavies and a corv which destroyed our last two miners there... then they camped our base. We had no money, still had reg cons, mini1 ints, and we knew sysx had mined enough money for frigs and could have mined enough money for whatever they wanted seeing as we only killed one miner. We resigned because the game was lost and we had other @#(! to do. Then we said gg sysx cause they won the game. Did sysx expect a close game vs us? Did we rob them of some supreme victory? They won! Our team acknowledged that they won. NI got the most it could from that game in terms of learning how it $#@!ed up so rather than pad sysx stats, we resigned. We $#@!ed up but fought on until all hope was lost. So don't use our game as an example.
I doubt sysx will hesitate to schedule matches vs us in the future because they like to win.. and we will continue to take those games because we like to learn and enjoy flying together no matter the foe or likely outcome.
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:27 pm
by spideycw
I am always pro playing NI because I love you and Masta
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:30 pm
by spideycw
Icky wrote:QUOTE (Icky @ Jan 31 2012, 10:15 AM) So you cheat?
I dont believe in a no win situation.
However if you believe activating my caps lock is cheating I'm guilty as charged!
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:31 pm
by Icky
Dome wrote:QUOTE (Dome @ Jan 31 2012, 10:23 AM) Sysx wanted to play vs us. We obliged. They in turn showed up 25 minutes late, making us wait.
We didn't resign after our first con died, or second, or third. We played 90% of the game with one sector; our home. Finally got a con to plant (next to our home), mined there for a bit wondering why it was sysx still had reg ints.. then they showed heavies and a corv which destroyed our last two miners there... then they camped our base. We had no money, still had reg cons, mini1 ints, and we knew sysx had mined enough money for frigs and could have mined enough money for whatever they wanted seeing as we only killed one miner. We resigned because the game was lost and we had other @#(! to do. Then we said gg sysx cause they won the game. Did sysx expect a close game vs us? Did we rob them of some supreme victory? They won! Our team acknowledged that they won. NI got the most it could from that game in terms of learning how it $#@!ed up so rather than pad sysx stats, we resigned. We $#@!ed up but fought on until all hope was lost. So don't use our game as an example.
I doubt sysx will hesitate to schedule matches vs us in the future because they like to win.. and we will continue to take those games because we like to learn and enjoy flying together no matter the foe or likely outcome.
Sorry, Dome, I wasn't targeting you specifically, but mentioned @NI since this is what prompted the discussion in the first place.
I think there should be some shame in resigning, even if the game is "lost" at that point. The exception would be poor sportsmanship on the winners' part, such as boxing the other team into one sector and just continually whoring them without attempting to end it.
I wasn't there, but this did seem like a premature resign. To go back to the sports analogy, if you are losing a game partway through do you just quit or keep playing until the game is actually over? It doesn't matter if you think you can't win, you need to finish.
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:21 pm
by Dome
Icky wrote:QUOTE (Icky @ Jan 31 2012, 07:31 AM) I wasn't there
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:30 pm
by spideycw
From your boasts the other night I am guessing you werent their either dome or we would have been crushed by your awesome self, even if you were only half as awesome as you claim!