Page 10 of 11
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:40 am
by cashto
phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Apr 29 2009, 11:59 PM) You can say I'm bad at the game and I won't deny it, but I am not ignorant whatever you may think.
I didn't say you were ignorant. I was just saying that I have my doubts whether spidey's new "numbers" policy will raise the general intelligence level of this forum, or whether it will just lead to people throwing random numbers around.
But now that you brought it up -- commed only a handful of times, never seen Giga tac win, never seen GT tac ever, not aware that Giga tac and IC exp are identical -- IDENTICAL -- in CC as they were in DN, umm ... Phoenix you may know a lot of things, but as far as this thread is concerned, you're ignorant. Or at least, you have one of the highest ratios of words-to-actual-experience in this forum. And I say this as no expert myself. I'm not a terribly good comm either. I've done Giga tac a few times with decent results, but I haven't done it enough times to say how it rates up against IC exp. That's the difference though. I don't pretend I know enough to say if IC exp is the juggernaut techpath everyone makes it out to be.
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:49 am
by HSharp
apochboi wrote:QUOTE (apochboi @ Apr 28 2009, 10:52 AM) GALV BLASTER
Projectile Info -
Damage - 3.5
Rate - 8 p/s
Total damage = 28 damage a second
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Now the damage calculations with the AC mod's included.
Galv does four times the damage against minor base shields
Galv does ten times the damage against minor base hull
HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Apr 28 2009, 10:56 AM) I'd say make them like a third or half stronger, so galvs only do somewhere between 2-2.5 times more damage on IC shields and 5-7 times more on IC hull [Editor: Galvs are half as effective on IC, so doubly hard to galv], it makes it big enough to have an impact on needing more galvers to galv down the bases but not so big that galving is impossible in smaller games.
spideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ Apr 30 2009, 03:09 AM) However if we WERE to make IC galvable I would say it would have to be at least 1.75-2x as hard other factions to galv
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:15 am
by Raveen
cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Apr 30 2009, 05:19 AM) Absolutely do not make IC galvable. Every faction deserves something radical that makes it unique. With IC, that thing is ungalvability and ripping miners. I'd no sooner make their bases galvable than I would nerf Dreg speed or take away Belter's ability to steal and keep tech.
You forgot: Instant Enh/Adv ships, Rescue Probes, Starting Lt Ints, The Various Stat Perks, Miners Unload at Techs and anything I've forgotten. IC has a lot of unique stuff (some of which has been added to non-MS factions but blame Noir and Veggie for that) and ungalvable bases/ripping miners are only a small part of that.
Giga Tac - yes it's awesome but not usually in a SG. In a SG the opening 10 minutes is vitally important. If you are a weak starting faction (like Giga) you will lose at least one opening con, likely one or two miners and be placed at a massive disadvantage, especially against IC who have a very strong opening. In a PUG none of this is a foregone conclusion. Once the Giga Sfs get out they will decimate ICs miners and SBs will finish the game. CC is being balanced for PUGs.
The reason you don't see Giga Tac often in PUGs is a) you don't play when Jimmy is on and b) you need moderately good pilots to play tac successfully whereas almost all voobs can work out how to fly an int (debatable I agree).
Me, I've never really liked IC bases being ungalvable. It shuts down tactical possibilities and decisions - the enemy of interesting gameplay. On the other hand I don't think it's currently broken which suggests that it shouldn't be fixed.
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:32 am
by Dorjan
Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Apr 30 2009, 10:15 AM) You forgot: Instant Enh/Adv ships, Rescue Probes, Starting Lt Ints, The Various Stat Perks, Miners Unload at Techs and anything I've forgotten. IC has a lot of unique stuff (some of which has been added to non-MS factions but blame Noir and Veggie for that) and ungalvable bases/ripping miners are only a small part of that.
Giga Tac - yes it's awesome but not usually in a SG. In a SG the opening 10 minutes is vitally important. If you are a weak starting faction (like Giga) you will lose at least one opening con, likely one or two miners and be placed at a massive disadvantage, especially against IC who have a very strong opening. In a PUG none of this is a foregone conclusion. Once the Giga Sfs get out they will decimate ICs miners and SBs will finish the game. CC is being balanced for PUGs.
The reason you don't see Giga Tac often in PUGs is a) you don't play when Jimmy is on and b) you need moderately good pilots to play tac successfully whereas almost all voobs can work out how to fly an int (debatable I agree).
Me, I've never really liked IC bases being ungalvable. It shuts down tactical possibilities and decisions - the enemy of interesting gameplay. On the other hand I don't think it's currently broken which suggests that it shouldn't be fixed.
One weapon down and it shuts down tactical possiblilities? It frees you up from buying Dis2 and Galv (if only galvs were REMOVED from the prereq for Fig/bs...) and you can TP2 instead. This is of course if you've failed to raid IC miners.
As for Peneeix1's arguments. I've got a win of PURE GIGA TAC vs a top comm as ACS. I even have the writeup etc because I WAS IN ACS.
And saying Rixians SUP is better than Dreg is a bit odd.. sure they have SRs which help but damned them dreg homing DF3s...
Back on topic.
I still think that having ONE faction with unGalvable bases, and ONE faction with weak to small-arms-fire ADDS to stratagy. Sure you can't rely on Galvs but damn it that just means you aren't flying SUP the same every god damn match.
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:51 am
by HSharp
Dorjan wrote:QUOTE (Dorjan @ Apr 30 2009, 10:32 AM) One weapon down and it shuts down tactical possiblilities? It frees you up from buying Dis2 and Galv (if only galvs were REMOVED from the prereq for Fig/bs...) and you can TP2 instead. This is of course if you've failed to raid IC miners.
I still think that having ONE faction with unGalvable bases, and ONE faction with weak to small-arms-fire ADDS to stratagy. Sure you can't rely on Galvs but damn it that just means you aren't flying SUP the same every god damn match.
You aren't freed up from buying dis2 and galv, going sup doesn't mean you "have" to galv but if you do want figbees you need galvs anyway so your point is stupid because you aren't freed up from getting galvs
and this is assuming SY is on, if SY is off then apart from trying to bomb with heavy bombers then there isn't much else you can do as sup vs IC.
Giga having easily killable bases is offset by thier cheapness which means you can just keep spamming them although I would like to see Giga ops, teles and refs have a hull improvement so they aren't shredded in seconds all the time, specs can stay the same hull.
And how the hell can you think making IC bases galvable means people will be going sup every match? People don't always go sup vs other factions so why would they against IC?
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:47 am
by Dorjan
HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Apr 30 2009, 10:51 AM) You aren't freed up from buying dis2 and galv, going sup doesn't mean you "have" to galv but if you do want figbees you need galvs anyway so your point is stupid because you aren't freed up from getting galvs
and this is assuming SY is on, if SY is off then apart from trying to bomb with heavy bombers then there isn't much else you can do as sup vs IC.
Giga having easily killable bases is offset by thier cheapness which means you can just keep spamming them although I would like to see Giga ops, teles and refs have a hull improvement so they aren't shredded in seconds all the time, specs can stay the same hull.
And how the hell can you think making IC bases galvable means people will be going sup every match? People don't always go sup vs other factions so why would they against IC?
(if only galvs were REMOVED from the prereq for Fig/bs...)
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:18 am
by Raveen
Dorjan wrote:QUOTE (Dorjan @ Apr 30 2009, 10:32 AM) One weapon down and it shuts down tactical possiblilities? It frees you up from buying Dis2 and Galv (if only galvs were REMOVED from the prereq for Fig/bs...) and you can TP2 instead. This is of course if you've failed to raid IC miners.
Um clearly yes it does.
Vs Any other Faction you have the following options: Galv, Bomb, Heavy Bomb, TP2, Figbees.
Vs IC You have the following options: Bomb, Heavy Bomb, TP2, Figbees.
Can you see how one list is shorter than the others?
Obviously that's a simplification because there's a multitude of ways of using each technique and some are game enders whilst others merely buy you breathing space but nevertheless the fact that you can't galv vs IC reduces the number of available options.
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:33 am
by Drizzo
Okay new topic.
I don't like BIOS Scan ranges. It Completely eliminates me going Tac against BIOS. Can we nerf it please?
I don't like how one faction's multiple perks completely negate that one tech path from being used against them. Can we make everything the same please?
Oh and another thing, TF miners being SRs? Completely impossible, it makes TF miners unkillable almost like IC ops. We should remove that too.
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On a serious note, I find it interesting to note that pilots are the ones pushing for this change, not commanders. Right now you have me against it, and Spidey is wishy-washy on it. Not that I'm saying that you lack any knowledge of the game, just that the perspective from the chair and the the perspective from the cockpit are two very different things. I just think that should be appreciated before you go off and break the game.
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:33 am
by zombywoof
Galv isn't an endgame option though, it's mid game, and... TP2/Figbees aren't really a map control option. Well... not a good option anyways, unless you're swimming in cash.
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:46 am
by apochboi
I don't understand this push to make IC galvable. IC has never been Galvable. Does it mean they are broken? No. Does it mean you cannot beat them? No. Does it make them unbalanced? No. All it means is you cannot use one little peice of tech against IC. Now I could understand it would be an issue if it was Giga, and they were expanding all over the map like giga should and you couldnt galv their base down. But IC, Cmon their econ doesnt permit them to expand that quickly not to mention the bases take longer to construct, and if you let them expand all over you then you really need to lrn2play.