But the point is..you aren't having games of 5 ACE vs 5 RT. You are having games of 3 XT, 5 RT, 1 SRM, 2 SysX vs 5 ACE 2 BS, 4 SF, 1PK. You aren't working with your squad. You are working with your squad, other squads, and cadets at the same time. That is no different than working with your squad, other squads, cadets, and a few mercs. And it has the additional benefit of mercs getting better gameplay and first hand experience with different squads so they can better decide on one to join, and the squads getting better looks at how mercs interested in joining a squad/new squad could fit into their system.
Anyway I'm off to play Infantry /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
Allegiance - The Future
Your right its not optimal, optimal is pure on squad vs squad games each night, but until we have the numbers to support that we have to settle.
I'm trying to improve gameplay for us here in allegiance, enjoy infantry, I'll be off to play alleg after this piece of pizza.
I'm trying to improve gameplay for us here in allegiance, enjoy infantry, I'll be off to play alleg after this piece of pizza.
"Someday, We'll Find It... The Rainbow Connection." ~ Kermit
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Trigger1969
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:36 pm
- Location: Some backwoods part of Texas
How about starting smaller that a 24/7 server? How about starting something like "Squad Wednesdays"? Try the original posts idea, but only on Wednesdays and see how it flys. If it works, expand on it. If it flops, it can go away. I'm hearing alot of "Play the way I want to and screw the rest of you" coming from both trenches. The truth of the matter is that we are already losing some of our better veteran playerrs due to the poor pug quality. If you don't like the idea of a squad only game, then come up with an idea to improve pug quality. Good luck finding an idea that will please everyone.
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Angela Liu
- Posts: 660
- Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:46 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Calm down Narg. I don't know how Mr.kltplzxym (i hope i spelled it right) feels about this but if it is directed to me I won't feel so good about it. True, there are some of us (including me) that is in a squad, but have less skill then some of those that are merc. True, that some of the merc out there contribute a lot in real gameplay while some of the newly squadded players don't yet have the skill to do so. That's why squads have practices to improve new recruits.Narg wrote:QUOTE (Narg @ Jul 27 2007, 02:17 PM) Fine but squaded players also have to get accepted based on their skill ----- you aren't in!
The problem right now is there are too many novice/intermediate skilled player (i count as one, my helo rank is messed up) on main server. Especially the helo rank and not that accurate as of now. The newbie server almost always have 10+ game running therefore they will always get the helo point for winning. They come to main server and don't know how to do a thing. You can't really know every player's skill level anymore, unlike when I first joined. There are too many novice/intermediate out there with names I never heard of, and different skill levels. For example, yesterday night, a inter4 ranked player drove a bomber and me in turret. enemy was camping the otherside of the aleph and one of our bomber shoot an aleph res into it. Hell, they even called "res away". this inter4 drove straight in, 5 second after relized it and tried to rip and got the whole bomber crew (2 gunners and 1 pilot) podded.
we can't really do much on main server with those kind of teamwork and structure of the team. Hence stack form on few vets that have skills to end the game. In a PU game, we can't normally see a good galv run going with all the new players. we can't really get the level of gameplay like from SG. We can do the squad thing in a regular PU game, but it won't do much with all the other people around that have lesser skill level. There are too few people that's playing out there, that actually want to improve rather than play a game. Thus the squad only server idea come up, with cadets allowed.
For your mercs, I respect your point of view. I do know that there are very skilled mercs out there and they don't feel fair that squadded player get to play on advance server while mercs are left with voobs. But right now, there's not anything we can do with it. This is proboblly one of the best ideas out there. How can you judge people on their skill levels? Everyone have different skills and you can't really put one higher than another. If you judge by kills, it would be unfair for probers and naners. If you judge by base kills, it would be unfair for support role players. Helo's really screwed and it worth almost nothing when you want to have a advance server. I, for one, is a way overanked inter. There are tons of people almost at the bottom of the leaderboard that have better skill level than I do.
I thought we dropped the let's have an only skilled players server idea. If the idea behind a squad only server is to let only skilled players on, I can think of other ways to get it going, but it would have downsides as well. For example, why should cadets be allowed on? they don't have the skills yet, they can practice anything they need on regular pickup games (even more easily because the comm won't expect them to be 100% usefull), also you will be forced to tell players they just don't cut it (who decides? well as to that I have some ideas if you want to know), and also you will effctively be taking ALL the good players off the regular server. This idea has as much cons and pros as does the squddie server, I am opposed to both. A third Idea is a server based on age (1year vets? 2year vets? more?), why not that?
I don't believe we have enough good pilots around that you can create a server that is only for them and still have good pilots on the regular server, teaching voobs how to get better, creating quality games etc. I have reasons to oppose a squad only server specifically (you should have read them by now), but I am opposed to any vet only server ATM. I all for events (weekly schedualed or a regular day) that have better gameplay while leaving people out, but I think that to create a 24/7 server is counterproductive. You get better by learning from better players, how do you do this when those better players aren't on? you will have the same problems you get from the newbie server because they think they are great players when they only have the basics down. Personally I don't think newbs should stay in the newb server once they know the very basics because ohw else will they get better?
So what do I suggest? squad thursdays (or whatever day), bringong back age ranks for certain occasions, or any other events... I'm sure you can think of more of them. I think I have exhausted my self on this subject, so please don't create a 24/7 squad only server.
I don't believe we have enough good pilots around that you can create a server that is only for them and still have good pilots on the regular server, teaching voobs how to get better, creating quality games etc. I have reasons to oppose a squad only server specifically (you should have read them by now), but I am opposed to any vet only server ATM. I all for events (weekly schedualed or a regular day) that have better gameplay while leaving people out, but I think that to create a 24/7 server is counterproductive. You get better by learning from better players, how do you do this when those better players aren't on? you will have the same problems you get from the newbie server because they think they are great players when they only have the basics down. Personally I don't think newbs should stay in the newb server once they know the very basics because ohw else will they get better?
So what do I suggest? squad thursdays (or whatever day), bringong back age ranks for certain occasions, or any other events... I'm sure you can think of more of them. I think I have exhausted my self on this subject, so please don't create a 24/7 squad only server.
Death's hounds feared me
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finnbryant
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:18 am
- Location: England
jus wish to say, as a merc i have no argument against this idea.
dont get bogged down, your not going to win everyone ove, there are a lot of mercs in this topic who have at least said its possible that it would work, just give it a months trial and see how it comes out, if theres noticibly more mercs complaning (or if mercs who were previously for the idea start complaining) then do a rethink, but you wont get anywhere unless you try.
good luck, hope you get a more competative game and that some old vets start returning /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
dont get bogged down, your not going to win everyone ove, there are a lot of mercs in this topic who have at least said its possible that it would work, just give it a months trial and see how it comes out, if theres noticibly more mercs complaning (or if mercs who were previously for the idea start complaining) then do a rethink, but you wont get anywhere unless you try.
good luck, hope you get a more competative game and that some old vets start returning /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
Narq Much respect bro and good to have your opinion, its why I posted here.
I do think you are confused though, a squad only server is not the same as a vet, inter, rank, skill, or age server. All of these have been ruled out because of fundamental flaws, which I have pointed out and probably hasn't been read.
I also think your confused in that a 24/7 server does not mean that all squads will be on it 24/7. It just means that server is there and available when prime time starts to roll around and a large number of squadies find themselves sitting in noat wanting an alternative to the main server, so hopefully instead of logging out or sitting on noat doing absolutely nothing for your game play, they stay logged in and have something to do.
The problem with scheduling it like anything else is that requires alot of work, maintenance and will not get an accurate account of the numbers interested. You could have 20 people that would love to participate but couldn't because of work or something. Best way to organize something is to keep it simple. Set it up and let the players manage it, if it works, great, if not, can it.
The only argument that I have read so far that really buts a down side to this type of server is the possability of a dev leaving because he doesn't like the idea. Now I know I give all changes a fair pass and try them out on the beta server before passing a final judgement and I can only hope they would do the same if something like this does get tested. But I respect his decisions just as much as I respect all the devs do for our community and the game.
I think at this point it is in the hands of the admins and the individuals running the servers to see if they want to make a name change to one of the servers and give it a try. A poll could be put up but its still entirely up to them on if they want to go ahead with it. I would hope to at least give it a try for 30 days.
I do think you are confused though, a squad only server is not the same as a vet, inter, rank, skill, or age server. All of these have been ruled out because of fundamental flaws, which I have pointed out and probably hasn't been read.
I also think your confused in that a 24/7 server does not mean that all squads will be on it 24/7. It just means that server is there and available when prime time starts to roll around and a large number of squadies find themselves sitting in noat wanting an alternative to the main server, so hopefully instead of logging out or sitting on noat doing absolutely nothing for your game play, they stay logged in and have something to do.
The problem with scheduling it like anything else is that requires alot of work, maintenance and will not get an accurate account of the numbers interested. You could have 20 people that would love to participate but couldn't because of work or something. Best way to organize something is to keep it simple. Set it up and let the players manage it, if it works, great, if not, can it.
The only argument that I have read so far that really buts a down side to this type of server is the possability of a dev leaving because he doesn't like the idea. Now I know I give all changes a fair pass and try them out on the beta server before passing a final judgement and I can only hope they would do the same if something like this does get tested. But I respect his decisions just as much as I respect all the devs do for our community and the game.
I think at this point it is in the hands of the admins and the individuals running the servers to see if they want to make a name change to one of the servers and give it a try. A poll could be put up but its still entirely up to them on if they want to go ahead with it. I would hope to at least give it a try for 30 days.
Last edited by TheVoid37 on Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Someday, We'll Find It... The Rainbow Connection." ~ Kermit
The problem here is the server you want is not going to be all that you think it is going to be. It is not going to be a great place for squads to get experience and work better together. It is going to be an improved PUG with multisquad matches. You might be the only one on your squad in the game or there might be 5 or more others, which might be the case on the regular servers. The only difference is you get to work with a more coordinated team and fight one that will be more on the level of the typical squad game.
The problem for veteran mercs is if there is a restricted server with improved gameplay there is not much reason to those with tags to play on the regular servers. Sure they will play on the regular servers some, but the majority of the time you are going to want to be on the squadded server.
What we need is an advanced server, allowing access with whatever way we can most accurately identify vets/advanced players. This will bring back a lot of players who hate most pugs and don't want to waste their time with them anymore. They can expect, at least during prime time, to find the advanced server with capable teams working together.
What you need to do is work with the squads and encourage squad scrimmages during the week. You'll have set times for your squad to get online and play together so you'll be able to have a larger squad group at one time vs just playing with whoever is logged in at the time. If you absolutely can't get the attendance for one squad vs another you could do two squad vs two squad games. But with this server you are going to have random mixes of 4 squads vs 5 which is not going to be very effective at building teamwork within your squad.
The problem for veteran mercs is if there is a restricted server with improved gameplay there is not much reason to those with tags to play on the regular servers. Sure they will play on the regular servers some, but the majority of the time you are going to want to be on the squadded server.
What we need is an advanced server, allowing access with whatever way we can most accurately identify vets/advanced players. This will bring back a lot of players who hate most pugs and don't want to waste their time with them anymore. They can expect, at least during prime time, to find the advanced server with capable teams working together.
What you need to do is work with the squads and encourage squad scrimmages during the week. You'll have set times for your squad to get online and play together so you'll be able to have a larger squad group at one time vs just playing with whoever is logged in at the time. If you absolutely can't get the attendance for one squad vs another you could do two squad vs two squad games. But with this server you are going to have random mixes of 4 squads vs 5 which is not going to be very effective at building teamwork within your squad.
Last edited by aem on Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
May happen, but I know for me, if I am the only one of my squad on, I'm going to stick to the normal server. I'm there to scrimage against other squads with mine, I wouldn't probably migrate there unless there were at least 3 of us. Heck we could even have an unwritten rule that you should bring at least 3 squadies to the table to get in on a scrimage.
It may or may not be what I envision, but there is only one way to find out. Not sure why the opposition about trying it out. /shrugg
The rank thing is a BAAADDD!! idea. Your talking about labeling ppl as good and bad players then segregating them onto different servers so the good get better and the bad do whatever. At least with squad scrimmage you even things out as squaddies have the same experience level as mercs IMHO. Unless you want to submit to the theory that squad players are better than mercs which I believe is very untrue.
The server I imagine here is that when there are enough of a squad or two on to toss together a scrimage, then we can migrate over there. It's that simple. I would just like a server where we would not have reprisal if we removed new players and non squaded members just like we can do on squad sundays, without bans and such.
Encouraging squad scrimages is exactly what I am trying to do.
But again its up to the admins at this point. Hopefully there is enough input here to let them make a decision if they care to.
It may or may not be what I envision, but there is only one way to find out. Not sure why the opposition about trying it out. /shrugg
The rank thing is a BAAADDD!! idea. Your talking about labeling ppl as good and bad players then segregating them onto different servers so the good get better and the bad do whatever. At least with squad scrimmage you even things out as squaddies have the same experience level as mercs IMHO. Unless you want to submit to the theory that squad players are better than mercs which I believe is very untrue.
The server I imagine here is that when there are enough of a squad or two on to toss together a scrimage, then we can migrate over there. It's that simple. I would just like a server where we would not have reprisal if we removed new players and non squaded members just like we can do on squad sundays, without bans and such.
Encouraging squad scrimages is exactly what I am trying to do.
But again its up to the admins at this point. Hopefully there is enough input here to let them make a decision if they care to.
Last edited by TheVoid37 on Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Someday, We'll Find It... The Rainbow Connection." ~ Kermit
i am all up for the idea.
to synthethize (and add some stuff)
1)a way to distinguish good mercs needs to be implemented
2)mantain exeptions to the minimum possible
3)build a system that permits unsquadded vets or players that recently left squads to join (tests, @merc, vouchs, etc.)
4)put more emphasis to @cdt, having an HQ macro giving out information to voobs and newbies on the main servers of how to join and get accepted
5)stop listening to flamers (i´m sorry narg, but at this point i´m feeded up of your crap.), and try to work out with ideas proposed by contributors
6)making this server aviable at all times (the purpose of this server would be forgot otherwise), so that anyone capable of playing could join and get a game going.
7)again, put more emphasis on learning. videos are already coming, we have cadet and acs, and @instructors could be implemented
8)make a way for newer players to join the server as cadets.
9)have permanent TS channels tied up with the teams, with some sort of name and ip authentication (this can be done, not by me but definitely can be done)
i personally think this will improve a lot the quality of games, the balance of cores (since you would have more accurate feedback), the size and quality of the community (returning vets + newcomers willing to play on the big servers -eventuall they all want to play on the big leagues-).
try it for a month or so i say
to synthethize (and add some stuff)
1)a way to distinguish good mercs needs to be implemented
2)mantain exeptions to the minimum possible
3)build a system that permits unsquadded vets or players that recently left squads to join (tests, @merc, vouchs, etc.)
4)put more emphasis to @cdt, having an HQ macro giving out information to voobs and newbies on the main servers of how to join and get accepted
5)stop listening to flamers (i´m sorry narg, but at this point i´m feeded up of your crap.), and try to work out with ideas proposed by contributors
6)making this server aviable at all times (the purpose of this server would be forgot otherwise), so that anyone capable of playing could join and get a game going.
7)again, put more emphasis on learning. videos are already coming, we have cadet and acs, and @instructors could be implemented
8)make a way for newer players to join the server as cadets.
9)have permanent TS channels tied up with the teams, with some sort of name and ip authentication (this can be done, not by me but definitely can be done)
i personally think this will improve a lot the quality of games, the balance of cores (since you would have more accurate feedback), the size and quality of the community (returning vets + newcomers willing to play on the big servers -eventuall they all want to play on the big leagues-).
try it for a month or so i say
Classifiable up to Trolleomorphism.