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I'll quote myself.

QUOTE As of CC16 dreg is the most expensive faction in alleg requiring 952 units of helium (3,3 sectors on 1.0 HiHi) to get 1 op, 1 tele, 1 ref, 4 miners total and bare heavy ints (or any adv ship) without any supporting tech (gas etc.). All this while having 2nd worst mining speed in game and highest research cost.

As a comparison belters need 573 units (1,8 sector), IC 750 units(2.5), giga 910 units, rix 944 units and GT 925 units (all roughly 3 and a bit)

Dreg with old yield (used to be 1.35, in cc16 it's 1.2) required 846 units of helium or 2.88 sectors.[/quote]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... sp=sharing

Updated cc16 link with modifiable values.

You can always use He3 mines, their income is sufficiently bumped up now and even though they are light, they are far stronger than Giga mines. And you can easily build four of them next to a fortified base and defend it to kingdom come. Each faction has their econ perks, Dreg has the mines. It's Rix that gets shafted, if anything.

If you find you can't because SY is off, well then, turn SY on. Caps are weak enough now that a 6v6 should easily be a SY game.

So let me get this right, so there is no confusion...

Spunk you're telling me that for Dreg is now meant to use HE mines as part of their standard economy, and that because of that, all games where you play as Dreg should be with SY on.

No faction should be "required" to use X tech in Y way to be competitive. Period. That is not the Allegiance way.

guitarism wrote:QUOTE (guitarism @ Mar 16 2013, 12:29 PM) So let me get this right, so there is no confusion...

Spunk you're telling me that for Dreg is now meant to use HE mines as part of their standard economy, and that because of that, all games where you play as Dreg should be with SY on.

No faction should be "required" to use X tech in Y way to be competitive. Period. That is not the Allegiance way.

+1

guitarism wrote:QUOTE (guitarism @ Mar 15 2013, 06:29 PM) So let me get this right, so there is no confusion...

Spunk you're telling me that for Dreg is now meant to use HE mines as part of their standard economy, and that because of that, all games where you play as Dreg should be with SY on.

No faction should be "required" to use X tech in Y way to be competitive. Period. That is not the Allegiance way.

+1

guitarism wrote:QUOTE (guitarism @ Mar 16 2013, 02:29 AM) So let me get this right, so there is no confusion...

Spunk you're telling me that for Dreg is now meant to use HE mines as part of their standard economy, and that because of that, all games where you play as Dreg should be with SY on.

No faction should be "required" to use X tech in Y way to be competitive. Period. That is not the Allegiance way.

+032

guitarism wrote:QUOTE (guitarism @ Mar 15 2013, 08:29 PM) So let me get this right, so there is no confusion...

Spunk you're telling me that for Dreg is now meant to use HE mines as part of their standard economy, and that because of that, all games where you play as Dreg should be with SY on.

No faction should be "required" to use X tech in Y way to be competitive. Period. That is not the Allegiance way.

No, I'm not saying that.

I'm saying it doesn't make any sense to complain about mining and then ignore the other half of the Dreg economic equation. Why do you think He3 mines exist? For @#(!s and giggles? It is absolutely part of the Dreg bonus set. If you find yourself unable to mine, it gives you an option to sustain your economy.

Spunkmeyer wrote:QUOTE (Spunkmeyer @ Mar 16 2013, 09:11 AM) No, I'm not saying that.

You're not explicitly saying that.
QUOTE I'm saying it doesn't make any sense to complain about mining and then ignore the other half of the Dreg economic equation. Why do you think He3 mines exist? For @#(!s and giggles? It is absolutely part of the Dreg bonus set. If you find yourself unable to mine, it gives you an option to sustain your economy.[/quote]
But you are essentially saying that.

So you ARE saying the Dreg is meant to use HE Mines in a regular game.

My problem Spunk is that by making it so that Dreg is essentially forced to buy and use HE Mines, you're taking player choice away from them. No other faction in the game is "balanced" so that they have to use a certain tech in order to progress. All other factions have "using miners to get money" as their basic function - even Giga. The Spec Mines for Giga are a possibility, but not required to win. The way the math is done right now, the way dreg is "balanced" makes it seem/feel like/appear that you need to use HE Mines to win.

Personally, I'd rather see Dreg miners/mining changed so it's more in line with other factions so that I'm not going to need to buy HE Mines in order to keep up with other factions. No other faction is required to do that.