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Big cities have big problems.

We should outlaw cities over 50k people.

raumvogel wrote:QUOTE (raumvogel @ Oct 5 2011, 09:27 PM) Being fishbone is from Huntsville, I'm sure he didn't inherit money from his rocket scientist dad or anything.


/ Fishbone Von Braun?

NightRychune wrote:QUOTE (NightRychune @ Oct 7 2011, 05:52 PM) how do we do that? i don't have a $#@!in clue,

NightRychune wrote:QUOTE (NightRychune @ Oct 8 2011, 02:52 AM) so long we continue the trite old argument of "the haves" vs. "the have-nots," arguing about socialism vs. capitalism, money, whatever - we're not going to go anywhere as a society or as a species. why?

this is the thing about this argument, and our current system: it's gamed to support people who have been in the position to take the utmost advantage of it, while those who are unable to do so because they lack the raw capital, the knowledge, and the personal connections (who you know is just as, if not more, important than what you know!) and until that basic framework is changed so more people truly benefit from it, well, we're not going anywhere

how do we do that? i don't have a $#@!in clue, the only thing i can really do is imagine a better tomorrow where we begin moving forward again and our capacity for technological and cultural growth stops being hampered by an overwhelming desire to make more money

Education. Ban private schools and spend substantially more on public schools. Target the money at the worst performing schools in the first case to try and raise all schools to the same baseline and then raise that baseline.

It won't fix the problem but it's a step in the right direction.

I'd also advise in favour of substantial inheritance taxes to demolish the possibility of an aristocracy forming.

Heyoka wrote:QUOTE (Heyoka @ Oct 8 2011, 12:24 AM) I apologize for asking you to kill yourself. I am just very emotional about these topics because I'm close to these topics. People talk about the conditions of my life and then tell me that I am simply a worthless leech of human being...it gets one in quite the rage.

We all helped produce these "leeches". We gave them sub-par education and an immense amount of distractions. We've infused our culture with violence yet we are surprised when kids grow up and kill people. We all share a small amount of responsibility for this. We are all not so detached as we seem.

"gave" them a sub-par education. Hmmmm. While I agree that the US education system mostly sucks, I can only blame myself for not knowing/learning more than I have. I "goofed" off more than I should have when I was in school. I did not ask enough questions. I did not read enough. I did not study enough. I did not TRY hard enough. But guess what . . I figured it out and made it happen for myself. You can too.

What I see in you Heyoka, is a "poor me" attitude where you look to blame something or someone other than yourself for certain shortcomings. Take ownership of your own life. LIVE IT! Go to the public library and read. Learn. I think you know how to read, right? You can type and respond to posts on the internet, ergo you can read. What you weren't taught is the most important lesson in life, how to teach yourself.

What's that parable about teaching, a man and fish? If you don't know it, go read about it. Teach yourself. You don't NEED others to "give" you knowledge, you take it for yourself. YOU are in charge of your life and no one can stop you (at least in the US) except YOU.

Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Oct 10 2011, 06:35 AM) Education. Ban private schools and spend substantially more on public schools. Target the money at the worst performing schools in the first case to try and raise all schools to the same baseline and then raise that baseline.

It won't fix the problem but it's a step in the right direction.

I'd also advise in favour of substantial inheritance taxes to demolish the possibility of an aristocracy forming.

Rav?!! WTF? Ban private schools? Tell someone that they CANNOT learn something on their own? They HAVE to "mooch" off the state and add cost to an already overloaded education system by attending? It's not like those attending private schools pay less taxes because they attend private schools.

Also, time after time after time it can be shown that targeting the worst performing schools with MONEY does NOT help. You have to change the WHOLE community so that THEY take a direct interest in those schools (most often effectively done by those who pay for them). That is almost never done with money. It's most often done with JOBS. Get a few decent business in the area and people can get jobs that pay decently, they start to slowly change their attitudes and they they start to care.

Now, how do those business get started? Tax breaks. Otherwise, WHY in the hell would I, as a possible business owner, go into a location where the culture is to mooch off of the system? Because I want to help? OK , . sure, if I'm rich, then sure (this isn't the average small/medium business that couldn't afford to lose money for a business in a down-trodden area). But then I won't be running things myself (if I'm rich I likely own several businesses and must give some attention to them all) and I have to find someone willing to go live in that area to run my business and train the workforce. So either I pay someone WAY more than the position is worth (incentive to live in a "bad" area), making them the "rich bad man who doesn't pay local workers enough" . . .oh blah . .if you can't logically tail this out and see it's a VERY difficult thing to do, even for the very rich . .

The only REAL way to have this happen is for the locals to say "we're tired of living this way" and to make a go of it themselves and them get some outside assistance. Of course, that happens, regularly, and fails, regularly.

If there were some magic formula that worked, Bill Gates would have solved these problems nearly everywhere by throwing money at it already.

Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Oct 10 2011, 01:35 AM) Education. Ban private schools and spend substantially more on public schools. Target the money at the worst performing schools in the first case to try and raise all schools to the same baseline and then raise that baseline.

It won't fix the problem but it's a step in the right direction.

I'd also advise in favour of substantial inheritance taxes to demolish the possibility of an aristocracy forming.

No Raven... The issue with the lowest performing schools is that the parents there do not give the same level of support to their children as those in the better performing ones. It is a social issue that no level of spending will ever compensate in any real way. Plus with the stupidity of Bush's No Child Left Behind, such actions would be illegal if they do not meet minimum testing standards... so now teachers "teach the test" to the lowest common denominator... the overall result? Education quality is lower.

And we do have a substantial inheritance tax...

Other states have done something called "vouchers" whereby parents now get a voucher to pay for public or private school. IMO this will ruin the public schools while bringing down the private schools somewhat... but we shall see how it works.

I'm a big fan of blaming tenured teachers as well as varying finances.

Once you're in the union w/ tenure, barring gross inadequacy in job performance, you can't be fired. Ever. Nor laid off.
Your curriculum is whatever you make of it. However progressive or conservative you wish it to be. You can teach whatever the hell you want.

Not trying to start a conservative/liberal war... just pointing out that these tenured teachers are allowed to teach WHATVER THE HELL they want, no matter the subject.

Minnesota tried to institute "Graduation Standards" statewide back in the late 90's, (back when I was about to graduate) and all it did was piss off the teachers that had to change their curriculums. After all, nobody likes change!

Sundance_ wrote:QUOTE (Sundance_ @ Oct 13 2011, 06:17 PM) I'm a big fan of blaming tenured teachers as well as varying finances.

Once you're in the union w/ tenure, barring gross inadequacy in job performance, you can't be fired. Ever. Nor laid off.
Your curriculum is whatever you make of it. However progressive or conservative you wish it to be. You can teach whatever the hell you want.

Not trying to start a conservative/liberal war... just pointing out that these tenured teachers are allowed to teach WHATVER THE HELL they want, no matter the subject.

Not quite. In larger schools that's probably true, but in smaller ones, you teach what you are told to teach. Trust me. My whole family works in edu (public sector) from elementary through upper levels of grad school.

SaiSoma wrote:QUOTE (SaiSoma @ Oct 13 2011, 07:01 PM) Not quite. In larger schools that's probably true, but in smaller ones, you teach what you are told to teach. Trust me. My whole family works in edu (public sector) from elementary through upper levels of grad school.

Oh I know man. But where are the schools that aren't getting it done?

I don' think the smaller ones are having the problems.