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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:00 pm
by DonKarnage
Why is this bug even an R6 blocker?
Is it present in R5?
Can't users just disable the 2nd monitor temporarily?
What % of the player base even use dual monitors?

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:01 am
by Phoenyx
DonKarnage wrote:QUOTE (DonKarnage @ Jun 1 2011, 09:00 AM) Why is this bug even an R6 blocker?
Is it present in R5?
Can't users just disable the 2nd monitor temporarily?
What % of the player base even use dual monitors?
I've been gone for years, and even I know the answer to some of these. It's fairly standard in the programming world to consider an item a blocker because it prevents people of a fairly standard setup from playing the game. Yes, there is a work around, but if there is a chance to fix it, it should be undertaken. Dual monitor support has been in use for a very long time and a program that does not properly respect dual monitors may run into other conflicts.

(Plus, I may be able to build a replacement system at home, so this may directly effect me. :) )

Sadly, it is difficult to get an accurate sample over the install base of these types of things.

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:40 am
by KGJV
DonKarnage wrote:QUOTE (DonKarnage @ Jun 1 2011, 01:00 AM) Why is this bug even an R6 blocker?
Is it present in R5?
Can't users just disable the 2nd monitor temporarily?
What % of the player base even use dual monitors?
you're too smart and logical to post here, this will cause drama ;)

do we even need R6 ?

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:58 am
by DonKarnage
I don't think we *need* it, but it has a long list of improvements that I would hate to see go to waste.

Didn't Imago already find a solution to the problem? What's the holdup?

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:22 am
by KGJV
madpeople wrote:QUOTE (madpeople @ May 30 2011, 03:17 AM) (yes, you can argue that you returning active dev here would get R6 finished, but your changes could also lead to the longer term goals of R7,R8 etc being finished, not just the short term goal of R6 which was the objective here).
no. on that the contrary, me returning active dev means pushing R6 to a very low priority. There are tons of more important things to do before needing new code. That's where I totally disagree with FAO's plan. Actually I think they have no plan at all to save this game, they're more like Steve Ballmer at MS who doesn't realize what is happening to its company.

This game doesn't need R6 today. Here is why:

This game is dying since 2002. People completely forget that since then the total number of people having Internet connected Windows PC (with broadband) has greatly increased each year. and yet Alleg either gained a few or lost a few. Even if Alleg had gained numerous players over the years it globally has lost a lot of players actually because the global 'potential' population greatly increased meanwhile.

So the diagnostic is pretty obvious: Alleg is dying.

Because it's old. no. Because we show our potential 'customers' that it is very old by featuring the 'made in 1999' pixelized cinematic in the main page of the site. I bet most of them run away upon seeing that '1st impression' crap. Way to ruin all the changes we made all these years and all the new mods/hires stuff. It's like screaming 'join us, we're a plain vanilla 1999 game with nothing new'... good one here. Get ride of that crap already plz.

Then the very few who eventually try to go further have to create an ASGS account and then download the game. no biggy here, expect meanwhile they might want to see the forums (so they click the community link on main page)..and bam nothing to see except that 'news' topic. Bah whatever they've just created an account so they can use it to log in the forum. WTH. can't? They need to create another account for the forums?! "oh lol to hell with this, bye" ... some tenacious ones might still go on. And so create another account. and then start yelling because they can't OpenIDconnect (or Facebook connect or twiter connect, whatever). yeah the site is like the video trailer of the game, it uses 10 years old technology. don't panic this is normal ! a 'Like' button to 'socially' promote the game? don't even think about it!

Then they eventually see the forums and the posts. WTH no ranking system?! no filter?! gosh this is really 1999 in here (well for the old enough ones) oh whatever, download has finished they'll install the game.

I won't mention the potential issues the might have installing and launching the game (UAC, default folder, etc). If they succeed the AU happens.

yeah finally, they're in. oh a 'training' button, cool they go there. Then what?! do they learn how to fly without a joystick ? is the 1st tutorial about how to switch the mouse mode. no. the 2nd one ? the last one? no. nowhere it is explained. And don't start me on the default key mapping (wth no classic WASD to move?! and what about non-US keyboard layouts. Try to do the training mission 2 with a foreign keyboard...lotta fun, bye bye rest of world).

Eventually only the very "nerdy" people who took time to read the "academy crash course" will learn about the mouse mode (but wait no mouse mode during training mission fly! haha gotcha noob!)

Anyway who does that in 2011? Who read tons of instructions before trying a game ?
certainly no one. You download, install and play. The game guides you and explain everything.

So you see, from eventually a lot of potential players, i'd say 99% if not more simply don't even got to play a regular game. They give up way before. The whole new comer experience is a just like a b&w old movie NIGHTMARE.

Simply because this site and the in-game tutorial/training mission are terrible. The game is not old, it's the 1st experience that is old and repulsive.

And then after, for the very few (< 1%) who manage to go further, there is the huge complexity of the game, the strange 'wait time to play' , the "bullies", the booting, the drama, etc.

so no R6 is very very low priority. There is so many things to do before that, things that don't requires old C++ coding skills...

But well all we see is that our Steve Ballmer(s) are concerned about a multimonitor issue.

god damn it, wake up!

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:38 am
by DonKarnage
Ah, where is that image of the Allegiance learning curve? The one with impaled bodies at the bottom?
That pretty much sums up this entire game where it's at right now.

I remember what a pain in the ass it was when I first started, the only reason I stuck around is because this was the game I had been trying to find for many years. I wanted to give it a chance.
And yes, the tutorials were @#(!, and I found myself on a bomber turret 1 hour later trying to aim with the keyboard. Thankfully someone told me to press numpad 0, I was beginning to think I *needed* a joystick to play.

F1 info should probably be updated too, if it hasn't already. It's good to have as a reference without needing to tab out to a wiki I don't even see a clearly labeled front page link to.

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:52 am
by Mastametz
KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ May 31 2011, 07:22 PM) {Everything KGJV Said}
and if they are retarded/bored/masochistic enough to suffer through all of that,
If they get LUCKY they'll get to sit in the lobby for a half hour before the game starts,
because nobody wants to command,
which is the biggest problem of all IMO.

Even the existing players don't want to play because nobody wants to command for them
and the willing commander(s) can't command because nobody will command against them

and then there's of course all the people like larry and trax kabab that would rather sit on NOAT and cry all day about how the game doesn't look "fair" enough for them to join (which really means they aren't able to stack the team they want)

and then there's imago who hacks and cheats and makes a big scene and then all the newbs go "i can haz hax?"
and quit

But go ahead and pay him, we all understand he's always had FAO's best interests at heart.

*chuckle*

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:12 am
by pkk
Kage, stop living in the past. Download the latest installer and see how nicely ASGS and Allegiance works with UAC/NTFS.

The only problem is the netcode, but blame AV programmers.

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:37 am
by DonKarnage
Play Dev Brawl.
Yes it's dumbed down, but at least you can play with sub-competent commanders and stand a $#@!ing chance at a fair game if the teams are kept even.
And get this; it's more newbie friendly. Because 1, They actually get to play the stupid $#@!ing game. And 2, they don't need to stare at all these god damned confusing icons all over the minimap and understand all the nuances.
They just hit F3 and it's all right in $#@!ing front of them.

The other @#(! with 10 sectors etc is for events and squad games. In pickup games it leads to nothing but 20 minute downtimes and bitching.

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:37 pm
by jbansk
I have to disagree with you Kage. There are hardware fixes in R6 that need released.

Other than that, I agree with everything you said.