Discussion of Bios changes

[HSharp]

I say Bios has quite a few too many special perks for it's few nerfs so I would just go by cutting one of the big perks.

For example change Bios so pods can't rip (bump up the speed a little to make it hurt less if you want)

[theTroy]

source: http://www.freeallegiance.org/FAW/index.php/Omicron_Hive

QUOTE Going OH SY is meant to put a giant timer infront of the enemy where you pretty much say, "You have 20 minutes to remove this base before I launch something that will be the equivalent of pushing a 'win' button."[/quote]

This is a very good description of what BIOS with any techpath is. Their endgame strength has to be OP, but it has to take long to get it. If they are too OP, make it longer until satisfied. Nerfing the power of the bios is basically ridding them of their main character.




So 3+4 from me. Increasing yeild to 1.1-1.2 and reducing mine speed to 0.5 will be an interesting change too.

[DasSmiter]

Honestly halving paydays is probably a small enough change with a big enough effect, although I would like to see some other nerfs implemented

[Hellsyng]

The question is are we changing Bios' ability to turtle around a techbase without miners or are we trying to make them easier to beat in early game?
If the former: Reduce paydays so that the other team gets adv tech first
If the latter: Increase fig scale or remove the ability for them to drop prox

The thread seems split on what we're actually changing here

[Jimen]

I'm sticking with "knock the starting Starbase down to a regular Garrison" and "lower their paydays"; forcing Bios to put some people on miner defense would probably nerf Bios' overall game enough that nerfing the figs as well would be overkill.

[notjarvis]

QUOTE (HSharp @ Jun 22 2010, 11:08 AM) For example change Bios so pods can't rip (bump up the speed a little to make it hurt less if you want)

FairCore FTW!

To be honest I'd be erring towards a payday nerf.

One of the main problems with Bios (IMO) is it's a productive tactic to turtle with 1 or no miners.
This also makes for some terribly dull bios games.

Forcing them to mine to afford tech at any decent rate will make the game more open. Bios will have to come out of their home to mine, just turtling for paydays leaves you open to being so badly outteched it will be well over before before Bios gets to decent tech.

[HSharp]

QUOTE (notjarvis @ Jun 22 2010, 04:33 PM) FairCore FTW!

Hardly. Bios already has enough special cheese that it can afford to lose one and still be very unique.

You all seem to be missing the point, Bios is awesome at turtling, not only that because their pods rip home its very easy for them to attack your miners, either die in the attempt or succeed and then get home to defend regardless of what ship they are attacking the miners in.

Basically if bios go home tech (though bios home sup works best because of figbees) it is saying you must defeat me in 20mins or I will be more powerful then you can comprehend, and you are just changing the 20mins to 30mins which is hardly the ideal solution.

[Makida]

There are ways of weakening their ability to succeed while turtling that don't involve removing the cool ripping pods. Nerfing their economy and forcing them to mine is probably the best solution for that. If nerfing their early game by increasing fig scale isn't enough, then nerfing their economy is probably the way to go.

There's no reason for some sort of ginormous change like removing ripping pods, or the starting Starbase. When there's other options available to balance the Bios, why jump onto taking away something interesting and unique? Interesting, unique faction abilities are good. We want to keep these whenever possible, and find other ways of balancing the factions -- and there's a number of ways to balance the Bios that don't involve taking anything unique away from them at all. Those should be tried first, and taking away unique faction features should be an absolute last resort.

Edit: Plus, an organized team should be able to kill the Bios home rip, even if the home tech base keeps being successfully defended. Especially since the Bios teleport receiver is a bit more fragile than standard, as per their 90% station shield/hull. No home rip -- no ripping pods. Yes, it can be replaced, but you've just cost them some money they now can't use to partial tech. If their economy does end up being nerfed, this will have an even greater impact.

[HSharp]

QUOTE (girlyboy @ Jun 22 2010, 05:37 PM) Interesting, unique faction abilities are good. We want to keep these whenever possible.

Prove it!

Bios has too many perks for their few nerfs and it's hard to balance a unique perk like ripping pods with standard nerfs.
Why not just give every faction an extra unique perk except Bios then?
Why don't we have all factions have exactly the same GA perk/nerfs but only have special perk/nerfs then? Surely that would be more fun?

[Makida]

QUOTE (HSharp @ Jun 22 2010, 12:50 PM) Prove it!

What?.. I have to prove that playing a game where the different factions are more interesting and unique is better than playing one where they're all the same?.. Doesn't that go without saying, seriously? The fact that each faction plays differently is interesting. Every time you play for and against a different faction you have to adapt a different play style. The more different the factions are, the more interesting it is. What more proof do you need? This is common sense. Ceteris paribus, would you rather play a computer game where the factions you can choose to play are all quite similar to each other, or an otherwise similar game with lots of well-balanced, but very different factions to try? I know which one I'd rather play, but maybe it's just me? I don't know. I think it's a silly thing to ask for such proof.

And yes, unique perks are hard to balance. But it's worth it. Removing perks is the easiest way to balance the game, and also the worst way, and the most boring way. Frankly, if someone had some great ideas for unique perks that could be balanced, giving every other faction something unique would be quite awesome. It's just hard to come up with such ideas. Here, we already have a very unique and awesome idea. Some factions get rescue probes -- Bios gets to rip their pods home! Awesome! Yes, it's a unique strength, but it isn't overpowered to the extent where it needs to be flat-out removed, rather than simply balanced by weakening the Bios in other ways. I challenge you to prove that the only way to balance Bios is to take away the awesome ripping pods, when there are other alternatives to consider, like nerfing their economy (or their fig scale, which I still prefer).

Like I said in the edit to my previous post -- the way to counter Bios ripping pods when they're turtling is to take out their home rip. Even when they're successfully defending their home tech, this should still be possible, especially since it's a pretty fragile base (90% shield/hull). And if their economy gets nerfed, replacing the rip will be even more of a pain for them. There you go, problem solved.