...and seriously, which great idea of TE and BV's has really made a difference before anyway? Wasn't elo supposed to fix the stacking problem for good? All we had to do was give it time, right TE? Since you're obviously agreeing that ELO didn't and never will work by banning people for stacking now, didn't you just prove yourself to be an idiot and untrustworthy when it comes to administering what you think is the right thing to do?
Banning supposed stackers as defined by whatever definition is being used at the time will not improve gameplay or appease the whiners. To the whiners and carebears there will always be something wrong with what other people are doing. Listening to whiners and acting on their every wish only leads to more whining and less competitiveness.
So admins ban stackers now?
Wow…I logged in to see if there were any posts in the Squad forum (which there weren’t) and I started just browsing around, then come across this thread and….wow.
I have two views on this:
First, I can see where people get upset with over banning, and maybe it needs to be put in the ROC so everybody’s clear on what is or is not considered stacking.
Secondly, BV and TE put up with a lot of crap from what I’ve seen. Maybe people would see things differently if they had the responsibility they had.
I remember a few posts not too long ago about how people weren’t being banned for stacking a game. A lot of people were upset about that, so chances were made. The player level for the newbie servers was dropped to prevent newbie whoring, something I had seen a lot of when I was playing the newbie servers.
Next people were glad to see the banning being done for stacked games. There was a thread about a few players setting up games that were stacked and newbie whoring.
But I’ve seen a lot of games I’ve been in that have started out almost even, then when one side starts loosing, people leave the team. If somebody were to come into that game after that, it could look like it was stacked. But having talked to BV about things that have happened in games, I’m told they have access to all the game records for every game and can review it. He told me about a few of them that he had to go back and review before he could do anything, which is the right way to do it.
Now I see people saying TE and BV are dictators, almost making them out to be power hungry egomaniacs. Now I know I haven’t been around as long as some of the others that have posted in this thread, so I don’t know the whole history of the game. But I will say that, from what I’ve seen, BV has been fair most of the time.
Keep in mind that he and TE are human and can (and I’m sure do) make mistakes. But ragging on them, insulting them, and basically harassing them for trying to keep the games as even as possible isn’t right.
I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if BV and TE decided to take a break from their duties and somebody else got put in their places. I wouldn’t blame them for taking a break from admin duties and just playing as a regular member. But who would step up to the task? Who has the courage to do what needs to be done?
Keep in mind that this is a freaking game. If you get so upset that you’re posting “hate postsâ€
I have two views on this:
First, I can see where people get upset with over banning, and maybe it needs to be put in the ROC so everybody’s clear on what is or is not considered stacking.
Secondly, BV and TE put up with a lot of crap from what I’ve seen. Maybe people would see things differently if they had the responsibility they had.
I remember a few posts not too long ago about how people weren’t being banned for stacking a game. A lot of people were upset about that, so chances were made. The player level for the newbie servers was dropped to prevent newbie whoring, something I had seen a lot of when I was playing the newbie servers.
Next people were glad to see the banning being done for stacked games. There was a thread about a few players setting up games that were stacked and newbie whoring.
But I’ve seen a lot of games I’ve been in that have started out almost even, then when one side starts loosing, people leave the team. If somebody were to come into that game after that, it could look like it was stacked. But having talked to BV about things that have happened in games, I’m told they have access to all the game records for every game and can review it. He told me about a few of them that he had to go back and review before he could do anything, which is the right way to do it.
Now I see people saying TE and BV are dictators, almost making them out to be power hungry egomaniacs. Now I know I haven’t been around as long as some of the others that have posted in this thread, so I don’t know the whole history of the game. But I will say that, from what I’ve seen, BV has been fair most of the time.
Keep in mind that he and TE are human and can (and I’m sure do) make mistakes. But ragging on them, insulting them, and basically harassing them for trying to keep the games as even as possible isn’t right.
I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if BV and TE decided to take a break from their duties and somebody else got put in their places. I wouldn’t blame them for taking a break from admin duties and just playing as a regular member. But who would step up to the task? Who has the courage to do what needs to be done?
Keep in mind that this is a freaking game. If you get so upset that you’re posting “hate postsâ€
I make no further comment than this as I have said in the past much to my detriment.
Something has to be done about stacking. I now see real efforts to make it so and apply to everyone. Please don't stop and do continue on this path.
How it is defined is very important so there is consistency across the board. There should be written guidelines.
Stack applies not only to pick up games but in my view certain squads and their recruitment policies.
Basing rank and game experience on who has the ability or luck to be on a winning team encourages stacking. Basing rank on individual ability within a game is the most important. Like it or not the number/rank affects most peoples judgement of what a stack is today even when experts are really inter and vice versa.
Commanders need to spread things out but also judgment should not be mid way through a game or whenever players drop thus affecting judgment of stack. If games are too imbalanced it's better to not have it count at all.
My other view is there should be certain servers where it's a free for all, and you can do all sorts of stuff as long as its for vets only who know better I guess or there's the element of choice there.
Some of us who mostly play in non USA/Europe times (like me, an Australian) can only play small games and largely with new people and helo gets skewed and players dropping makes a huge impact. Vets can tend to gather lots of helo just by winning games at these times. Many of you agree what is "late night" games suck, some of us have no choice. I'm trying to advertise more on Aussie game forums etc to have more players here.. BUT Please take these players into account who can only play these times mostly.
That's all, I support anyone who wants to make this game a fun experience for all as it truly is a great, fun game... and making the games fairer can only make it so much better for all. BV and TE and others do a great job with their free time and we should help and support them as much as possible.
I'll refrain from further comment.
Thanks
Something has to be done about stacking. I now see real efforts to make it so and apply to everyone. Please don't stop and do continue on this path.
How it is defined is very important so there is consistency across the board. There should be written guidelines.
Stack applies not only to pick up games but in my view certain squads and their recruitment policies.
Basing rank and game experience on who has the ability or luck to be on a winning team encourages stacking. Basing rank on individual ability within a game is the most important. Like it or not the number/rank affects most peoples judgement of what a stack is today even when experts are really inter and vice versa.
Commanders need to spread things out but also judgment should not be mid way through a game or whenever players drop thus affecting judgment of stack. If games are too imbalanced it's better to not have it count at all.
My other view is there should be certain servers where it's a free for all, and you can do all sorts of stuff as long as its for vets only who know better I guess or there's the element of choice there.
Some of us who mostly play in non USA/Europe times (like me, an Australian) can only play small games and largely with new people and helo gets skewed and players dropping makes a huge impact. Vets can tend to gather lots of helo just by winning games at these times. Many of you agree what is "late night" games suck, some of us have no choice. I'm trying to advertise more on Aussie game forums etc to have more players here.. BUT Please take these players into account who can only play these times mostly.
That's all, I support anyone who wants to make this game a fun experience for all as it truly is a great, fun game... and making the games fairer can only make it so much better for all. BV and TE and others do a great job with their free time and we should help and support them as much as possible.
I'll refrain from further comment.
Thanks
I'd like to see how this pans out. So far the conditions under which the guys were banned seemed fair to me. Maybe I think there should have been a warning given to the player. Maybe just the higher ranked guys like vet 2/3 and up since those players should know better.
In the end I think maybe those of you who are complaining now about the bans are possibly over-reacting. Unless BV and TE go on a massive tear and ban huge portions of our active population like Caligula in burning Rome, I think maybe those of us who value fair game play should see how this pans out.
It's not like they are getting drunk, pointing a random player they don't like and banning them for 12 weeks.
They donate time and resources so that we can have our sandbox. I know there are those of us who like to play stupid and act like they don't know what constitutes stacking, but guess what, the people in charge aren't buying it anymore.
Cheers, and heres to everybody losing their fair share of games now. Tip one for my homies that are about to go to Vet1/Int7 /mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />
In the end I think maybe those of you who are complaining now about the bans are possibly over-reacting. Unless BV and TE go on a massive tear and ban huge portions of our active population like Caligula in burning Rome, I think maybe those of us who value fair game play should see how this pans out.
It's not like they are getting drunk, pointing a random player they don't like and banning them for 12 weeks.
They donate time and resources so that we can have our sandbox. I know there are those of us who like to play stupid and act like they don't know what constitutes stacking, but guess what, the people in charge aren't buying it anymore.
Cheers, and heres to everybody losing their fair share of games now. Tip one for my homies that are about to go to Vet1/Int7 /mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />
Bones heal. Chicks dig scars. Pain is Temporary. Allegiance is forever.
lol. says the guy who holds rank 1 on the leaderboard, but is trying to lower it by artificial means (read: MANIPULATING RANK), probably so he can be in peace with the rest of the playerbase (aka: be able to stack again).
come. $#@!ing. on. squads? you are definitely crazy and don't know what you are talkign about. go ahead and stack a bit so you earn a fair ban for yourself.
come. $#@!ing. on. squads? you are definitely crazy and don't know what you are talkign about. go ahead and stack a bit so you earn a fair ban for yourself.
Classifiable up to Trolleomorphism.
No, in this situation I think
QUOTE Act like an adult.
Even if you aren't one. This is a mature community based around a game. G-A-M-E - it's not a lifestyle, it's not your fan club, it's not your escape from reality where you're the playground bully. Being good at a video game doesn't mean anything except that you have too much time on your hands and can't find a productive way to spend it.
Be Civil.
Everyone wants to play, nobody wants to be hassled. When in doubt, see the rule above.
Everyone gets to play.
You don't get to decide who gets to play and who doesn't. I don't care if they have a !@#$&% (-3) tag, let them play... so long as they follow the rules.
Don't be stupid.
When you're doing something you know you shouldn't do, you're being stupid. I don't care if you're trying to make a point, push a political agenda, or just like annoying other people. Don't do that. When in doubt, see the above rules.
There you have it. If you follow these four simple rules you won't violate the official RoC and everyone will be happy. If you don't follow these simple rules, then you don't get to play.[/quote]
applies.
So, do you want to add Supplemental rule #what-the-$#@!-ever:
"If a player makes a decision about which team they want to play with, then BV or TE can make a completely subjective decision as to whether the decision is moral, immoral, or amoral; decide on the type of punishment; and enforce it"?
Remind me why the legal system has seperate entities for Judge, Jury, and Executioner?
QUOTE Act like an adult.
Even if you aren't one. This is a mature community based around a game. G-A-M-E - it's not a lifestyle, it's not your fan club, it's not your escape from reality where you're the playground bully. Being good at a video game doesn't mean anything except that you have too much time on your hands and can't find a productive way to spend it.
Be Civil.
Everyone wants to play, nobody wants to be hassled. When in doubt, see the rule above.
Everyone gets to play.
You don't get to decide who gets to play and who doesn't. I don't care if they have a !@#$&% (-3) tag, let them play... so long as they follow the rules.
Don't be stupid.
When you're doing something you know you shouldn't do, you're being stupid. I don't care if you're trying to make a point, push a political agenda, or just like annoying other people. Don't do that. When in doubt, see the above rules.
There you have it. If you follow these four simple rules you won't violate the official RoC and everyone will be happy. If you don't follow these simple rules, then you don't get to play.[/quote]
applies.
So, do you want to add Supplemental rule #what-the-$#@!-ever:
"If a player makes a decision about which team they want to play with, then BV or TE can make a completely subjective decision as to whether the decision is moral, immoral, or amoral; decide on the type of punishment; and enforce it"?
Remind me why the legal system has seperate entities for Judge, Jury, and Executioner?
Last edited by juckto on Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Usually though, "skill" is used to covertly mean "match the game exactly to my level of competence." Anyone who is at all worse than me should fail utterly (and humorously!) and anyone better is clearly too caught up in the game and their opinions shouldn't count.
I've got another idea. One that i've been saying for a while now. Why not make no novice games that prevent newbs from joining? Why not put in the server name "Advanced Players only - There may be stacking".
That way people will know that if they join this game they are dealing with asshats that like to play together. The argument for stacking always seems to come down to "I want to play WITH my friends" "Why should I be forced to join a team or fly for a commander that I don't want to fly for? I might as well just not play and shut the game off!"
Ok, take the attitude of trying to work with BV and TE instead of belittling what is in essence a good idea. The prevention of unfair games on the main server. Get a group of players together and go off into another server separate from the main game and put disclaimers in the title and set it to no novice.
Would that be an acceptable BV? Can players who want to create an unlimited zone do so for themselves? What would be acceptable criteria for them to do this and how should they go about setting up their games/server names?
That way people will know that if they join this game they are dealing with asshats that like to play together. The argument for stacking always seems to come down to "I want to play WITH my friends" "Why should I be forced to join a team or fly for a commander that I don't want to fly for? I might as well just not play and shut the game off!"
Ok, take the attitude of trying to work with BV and TE instead of belittling what is in essence a good idea. The prevention of unfair games on the main server. Get a group of players together and go off into another server separate from the main game and put disclaimers in the title and set it to no novice.
Would that be an acceptable BV? Can players who want to create an unlimited zone do so for themselves? What would be acceptable criteria for them to do this and how should they go about setting up their games/server names?
Bones heal. Chicks dig scars. Pain is Temporary. Allegiance is forever.
-
ShadowMoses
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:00 am
Limit Pico's idea to 30 player servers, for starters. Otherwise you'll just have vets playing "vet only" games, novices playing with just themselves until they get enough elo to join the "vet only" games, then joining and sucking hard.
Limit it to 30 (or less) and the unlucky vets will have to play with the newbs, as per how it works now.
Limit it to 30 (or less) and the unlucky vets will have to play with the newbs, as per how it works now.
Last edited by juckto on Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Usually though, "skill" is used to covertly mean "match the game exactly to my level of competence." Anyone who is at all worse than me should fail utterly (and humorously!) and anyone better is clearly too caught up in the game and their opinions shouldn't count.