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_SRM_TheBored wrote:QUOTE (_SRM_TheBored @ Jul 16 2006, 01:42 AM) I wish I could DL TEK, but the link is broken right now for some reason.

Here's a mirror for you (it's TEK 1.51... not sure that's the latest, because I don't use TEK, as everyone knows anyway /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />) (hope Tiger doesn't mind)

_SRM_TheBored wrote:QUOTE (_SRM_TheBored @ Jul 16 2006, 01:42 AM) I would doubt that a scout could kill 4 miners and its defense.

Well, a Rix heavy scout has 800 bullets per clip. So assuming each miner is defended by 1 scout, that would give us about 50 bullets per target per ammo clip. Mini-AC has a RoF of 12.05 shots per second... So if you can kill a miner in 4 seconds of sustained fire, you're in business.

The Rix damage bonus and having a somewhat relevant KB to start with might make it feasible, actually.

The only time in which rix hvy scouts are a threat is when you start the game with high $#@!ing starting money.

Recognize the settings, and plan accordingly. Yes heavy scouts will rape early tech and rix is the only faction to be feared in this situation. Dreg? No. $#@! that. Too expensive, and too slow even at 1 minute researches.

You want to counter rix heavy scouts? Bomb them. They are still only scouts, I have turreted bombers and killed many rix heavy scouts in this manner. Today I was a little cocky and I did something else, but honestly, if you buy bombers and tell your retarded team to nan the bomber, you can make rix heavy scouts look lame and stupid. By the time they get in range with their miniac, your 2 competent gunners should have seriously put the hurt on a mother $#@!er. Next. Next. Next. Next.

It's a KB morale boost and a hell of a good time if you can turret. The only time I get angry, is when GC commanders go highest starting money and rush that idiocy. $#@! you.

Bored, I told you. You don't understand my random capitalisation at all. And if you don't believe me, then fine.


We had another Hvy Scout rush earlier this morning. When we got dedicated miner D that didn't $#@! around, two/three Hvy Scouts couldn't kill the thing before they were podded.
http://asgs.alleg.net/asgsnet/recentgames.aspx?gameid=12535


According to TEK, a good Hvy Scout pilot could kill two miners and two scouts with one ammo clip and a 21KB (with a tiny amount to spare if they didn't miss any shots). So logically, two ammo clips (one in the pipe, one in the back) would be enough to kill all four miners and roughly eight scouts...and with a good team you'll have three or four Hvy Scouts on your miners. That does seem like a bit too much ammo, and that is a lot of Proxes you can carry instead. Most pilots would perhaps carry three proxes in cargo, one in the slot and two ammo racks not including the one already in the gun, which, again, according to TEK is more than enough to kill four miners/eight scouts, and the extra clip provides a wide margin of error (or compensates if more D arrives).

Is that just me or is that TOO many bullets?

Pook wrote:QUOTE (Pook @ Jul 14 2006, 07:37 PM) Correct. The perfect counter to cheese is jalapeno cheese.

The counter to jalapeno cheese is monterey jack.

/mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />

i counter that with a sonoma county habanero jack.

/wub.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":iluv:" border="0" alt="wub.gif" /> cheese.

while your at it, TF hvy scouts.. WTF??

3 forward PE gats, and a turret??

you going to fix those too?

Not just bombers, but try gettting Gunships vs TF hvy scouts. It's crazy how much damage 1 SINGLE GIGA GS does. I flew against 1 Giga GS, and myself and 4 other hvy scouts got completely pwnd, and lost a base as a result.

So don't cry about it. Yes, ammo should be reduced, but leave the AC on, and just know how to counter it.

noir, can you post the stats you are refering to because i'm not sure if your using other stats that we dont have available (i.e. which games had a certain ship or something)

also, could you do it by listed in the form
commander | wins with hvy scouts | losses with hvy scouts

the only reason you can loose with a rix hvy scout rush is if you (as comm) or your team screw up (i.e. dont kill their miners.)

i remember a rix vs rix game, even sides (think elo said it was .46 / .54), me vs another good comm

both rushed hvy scouts, but i got there first (i think i expanded better)
we were then owning their miners while they had a star and adv scouts. (they killed a few of ours)
but i made my team focus on killing their miners, we killed theirs, and we always managed to keep at least one alive
they managed to get hvy scouts, but we had sup and ac 3
they tried to get sup but we killed the con
later (we still focused on killing miners, so it was hard for them) they managed to get another sup con and they built it at their home (we didn't manage to kill it, but we got close)... too bad for them we now had rix sbs.

they only reason you will loose if you rush rix hvy scouts (preferably with my expanding rush instead of a pure rush which leaves you with no econ) is if you dont kill their miners

anyway, are we sure that the whole faction stats thing works?
have you ever thought of testing it - maybe introduce a unbalanced ship to one faction and see if their win/loss ratio radically shoots up?
perhaps give bios the madpeople fighter but just as an upgrade from adv figs and see if their win ratio suddenly shoots up
double one factions bombers hull or something, see if it suddenly wins more
*ponders* well, maybe not such big changes, but un-balance something and see if it strengthens the faction

p.s. if anything go for the ammo reduction

And don't go belts vs rix if you know they are goona go hvy scouts. SS3 is an awesome thing to have.

guitarism wrote:QUOTE (guitarism @ Jul 16 2006, 04:47 PM) And don't go belts vs rix if you know they are goona go hvy scouts. SS3 is an awesome thing to have.

SS3 makes no difference. Belts figs/scouts/sfs get an extra 300 base hull points compared to other factions' ships. If you take damage classes into account, those 300 extra hull points are just as good against miniAC as ss3's 225 base hp.

But what about ss3's 3.75 hp/s regen (equiv to 5 hull points a second against miniAC)? Belt's not only have 1.05 hull, but if they go sup, their hull ga's will also count on those extra base hp they started with, giving them more defense overall than any other faction. The shielded ship only do better if the fight was drawn out for a long time. Against heavy scouts, usually either you or the scout dies pretty quick. The only way to do better defensively is get GT with hull ga's, stolen ss3, and the tac shield ups.

Belts should be just as good or better than any other faction with equiv levels of tech/money. That's where the real danger lies. Belts slow research makes it much harder to keep up against a quick rix scout rush early game. If they survive initially though, i don't see any problem w/ going belts.

problem there, the rix scout just has to avoid enough hits, and whittle the belt scout down, shields recharge...

_SRM_PsycHosis wrote:QUOTE (_SRM_PsycHosis @ Jul 18 2006, 11:19 PM) problem there, the rix scout just has to avoid enough hits, and whittle the belt scout down, shields recharge...

At least 20 secs before regen gives an edge, before then the belter craft has comparable advantage to other factions. If you don't kill the scout in 20s of conflict you are probably dead anyways.