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even with social safety nets in the united states, poor people's lives are really really @#(!ty

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-04...-phone-lifeline

for ta:
QUOTE Districts pay most public school teachers based on their level of
teaching experience. Many receive additional pay based on the
amount of education they have beyond a bachelor’s degree. In
many districts, those with master’s degrees make about twice
as much as those with bachelor’s degrees. Average salaries are
always changing, but the average teacher salary in the 2006-07
school year was $51,009. It takes teachers about 14 years to
reach the average salary level.

The average beginning teacher salary in 2006-07 was $34,229.[/quote]

http://www.aft.org/pdfs/tools4teachers/bec...teacher0608.pdf

Pretty @#(!ty considering you need a bachelors degree to even try to become one. Oh and its not like any person with a degree and license gets to be a salaried teacher. It already is competitive, the pay is just @#(!

4 points. ..

1. This 'summers off' thing that we're on about here. .. Not so much. Most of that time is cut up into lesson planning and other work related things. (Like 50% of my family are teachers. They don't have this mountain of time off)

2. I was making more than $34,229 in 2006 with zero post secondary education and minimal experience working as a 3rd level Call Centre agent.

3. Tenure is bull@#(! and it should be erradicated as a concept. There are far too many invincible teachers who both don't care, or who suck ass and have no consequences for their @#(!ty actions.

4. Most teachers I know end up putting their own children through private school. Even as they work in the public sector, they have so little faIth in it that they all want to outsource to private industry.

djrbk wrote:QUOTE (djrbk @ Oct 14 2013, 10:56 PM) 1. This 'summers off' thing that we're on about here. .. Not so much. Most of that time is cut up into lesson planning and other work related things. (Like 50% of my family are teachers. They don't have this mountain of time off)

I respectfully disagree. Granted during the year it's not a 9-5 job (or 7-2) like most people think, as I've known teachers who easily work 10 hours a day during the school year. But they certainly do get more time off than most jobs allow. Sure they might spend some of their summer doing lesson planing and work related things, but that type of thing is far from 40 hours a week. Plus, once you do it for a few years, you develop a reserve of lesson plans that really just need updating and it's not a huge time consuming thing to do. I know plenty of teachers, too.

@brood i knew someone would bring that up. Bottom line is that's not far from other industries. In most industries you start out making @#(!ty money. Hell, my firm starts off lawyers who just graduated at 35k a year. Sure you probably made more with your computer science or engineering degree, but those tend to be higher-paying jobs out of the gate. Also salaries vary from state to state. In MA, I knew a teacher who was making 60k by his 6th year. That was fairly normal for his district, too. I believe MA teachers are higher than average across the country when it comes to salary, though. Also in MA you are required to obtain your graduate degree after a certain amount of time teaching. Obtaining your graduate degree is really not that hard, though, and it's not like people with grad degrees in English are making tons of money at the English factory down the road.

Thats wonderful that your friend is wayyy above average. But you know what? That just means there is someone just as far below average! Arent numbers fun!

To throw in with dj, you can make almost as much money working at a grocery store here as you make teaching. More if you talk about vs starting pay. And you dont have to spend a dime on education.

Any bets on if lawyers take 14 years to make 50k a year?

There was once a time when I was unsure what I wanted to do with my life. Teaching got thrown right out the window early on because it pays like @#(!. You can't tell me how many people have been turned away because of that. Its the free market, pure and simple

You don't teach for the money. You teach for the job security, health/dental benefits, and time off.

At least where I come from anyways.

That said, I would never teach anything less than JC.

Broodwich wrote:QUOTE (Broodwich @ Oct 15 2013, 08:53 PM) Thats wonderful that your friend is wayyy above average. But you know what? That just means there is someone just as far below average! Arent numbers fun!

Average for who? He's average in my state. Maybe that's above average for where you are, but that means you guys should fix that @#(!.

Sheriff Metz wrote:QUOTE (Sheriff Metz @ Oct 15 2013, 03:47 AM) I think people are as smart as they need to be.
People's lives are too easy and that is the primary problem.
That's why I'm against the principle of widespread, easy-to-obtain social safety nets.

People will be lazy morons as long as its convenient for them to survive as such.
Being homeless, starving, freezing to death - these are things that motivate people to improve themselves.
Foodstamps and "Obama Phones" aren't.

Wrong. All of it.

People who work hard to survive are not the ones with time, energy and curiosity for science (or art, or philosophy or...)

The greek city states gave rice to philosophy because they had a well off class of people living the easy life, serfs and slaves doing the work. It wasn't because life was hard, and that inspired them to suddenly think deep thoughts about the nature of reality.

Basically Metz, you are an ideologically driven fool. Let's see what social darwinist nonesense you come up with next.

Memorizing a bunch of stuff does not a smart person make. Devote all the time you want to study.
Plenty of people devote themselves to education - and are still complete idiots and can spout of lines off stuff they memorized but wouldn't be able to figure out for themselves or really understand.

Intelligence != education.

Intelligent people are so because they needed to be so. Education is a choice.



Case in point - you're a lot more educated than I am, and you're an embarrassment to humanity.