Discussion of Bios changes
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Malicious Wraith
- Posts: 3170
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:51 am
Bios' problem isn't that gunships are uber or that sup is unbeatable. Bios' problem is that bios sup is ridiculous and all of its other techpaths are pretty damn good too.
Bios' problem isn't that its figs drop prox, its that once the little buggers get their techbase up, any other miner loads are just gravy on the big turkey-and-mashed-potatoes dinner of TP2 figbees in 40 minutes. With TP2 figbees being what they are, you almost don't even need to attack miners either! Just defend your techbase until the tp2 figbees are up (don't even need that garrison), then fly tp2 scout in and win the game.
Normally, TP2 figbees are very powerful. You stop these runs by attacking miners early in the game so that your end game tech (be it SBs, HTTs, int bombing, or your own TP2 figbees) is up before theirs, and you can kill their @#(! before they kill yours. Stopping Bios means killing all their miners before the techbase, because if you kill the miners after the techbase is bought you're not even slowing them down, you're just stopping them from picking up dis3 and the more useless GAs along the way.
Honestly I would say that #3 is the way to go. If Bios gets tp2 figbees in 40 minutes, and you halve their paydays, then they get tp2 figbees in 80 minutes instead. If you can't win in 80 minutes, you probably deserve to lose anyways. To help with this, I suggest increasing the scale of the fighters.
My opinion? 2 and 3. Do both. Paydays to .5, and make the bastard figs easier to hit. See what happens when Bios really does need to start defending miners.
Bios' problem isn't that its figs drop prox, its that once the little buggers get their techbase up, any other miner loads are just gravy on the big turkey-and-mashed-potatoes dinner of TP2 figbees in 40 minutes. With TP2 figbees being what they are, you almost don't even need to attack miners either! Just defend your techbase until the tp2 figbees are up (don't even need that garrison), then fly tp2 scout in and win the game.
Normally, TP2 figbees are very powerful. You stop these runs by attacking miners early in the game so that your end game tech (be it SBs, HTTs, int bombing, or your own TP2 figbees) is up before theirs, and you can kill their @#(! before they kill yours. Stopping Bios means killing all their miners before the techbase, because if you kill the miners after the techbase is bought you're not even slowing them down, you're just stopping them from picking up dis3 and the more useless GAs along the way.
Honestly I would say that #3 is the way to go. If Bios gets tp2 figbees in 40 minutes, and you halve their paydays, then they get tp2 figbees in 80 minutes instead. If you can't win in 80 minutes, you probably deserve to lose anyways. To help with this, I suggest increasing the scale of the fighters.
My opinion? 2 and 3. Do both. Paydays to .5, and make the bastard figs easier to hit. See what happens when Bios really does need to start defending miners.
Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
You're all doing it wrong.
Don't touch anything except light base build costs. Increase those 50% in line with the starbase and tech bases. Yes, I know they're not upped. However, it is a one-size-fits-all solution. Hurts bios economy, early game most specifically, but also injures their middle and late game, and makes any successful strikes against bios hurt more, but not cripplingly so.
Don't touch anything except light base build costs. Increase those 50% in line with the starbase and tech bases. Yes, I know they're not upped. However, it is a one-size-fits-all solution. Hurts bios economy, early game most specifically, but also injures their middle and late game, and makes any successful strikes against bios hurt more, but not cripplingly so.
"Don't screw around with the $#@!head. Trust the $#@!head."
QUOTE Increase those 50% in line with the starbase and tech bases[/quote]
What exactly does this sentence mean?
What exactly does this sentence mean?
I'm sorry I don't remember any of it. For you the day spideycw graced your squad with utter destruction was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Sunday
Idanmel wrote:QUOTE (Idanmel @ Mar 19 2012, 05:54 AM) I am ashamed for all the drama I caused, I have much to learn on how to behave when things don't go my way.
My apologies.
He wants OPs to cost 7500 and TPs 4500 in the way Bios tech cons cost 15k instead of 10k. Except a 7500 regular outpost sounds kind of weird and would make me never want to go Bios exp again. At least with 15k tech cons there is a clear benefit. Plus I don't think we need to nerf Bios exp. And I fail to see how making Bios cons more expensive hurts them when they already win without any expanding at all. In fact it would just probably make tp2 more likely.spideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ Jun 21 2010, 11:37 PM) What exactly does this sentence mean?
MrChaos to Sharpfish wrote:QUOTE (MrChaos to Sharpfish @ Oct 2 2011, 08:55 AM) Damn there went my hope you died in a couch fire.
1 & 2 have been done before and no, leave the fighters alone. good teams can roll bios early anyway on a small to med map so why make their fighters weaker. this would apply to mass as well.
In relation to 2 as well, learn to use MRM or QF missiles on Bios. Size is only a problem for IC Lt ints. that said, yes TF would be annoying, but TF already has a strong opening, just like IC.
Halve the paydays to make miners more critical is the right move. If you can mine to tech, then you deserve to win. If you think Bios ships are too powerful for their equivalents, make them more expensive to justify the power.
From that point of view, make Rix heavy Scouts cost an extra 5K.
In relation to 2 as well, learn to use MRM or QF missiles on Bios. Size is only a problem for IC Lt ints. that said, yes TF would be annoying, but TF already has a strong opening, just like IC.
Halve the paydays to make miners more critical is the right move. If you can mine to tech, then you deserve to win. If you think Bios ships are too powerful for their equivalents, make them more expensive to justify the power.
From that point of view, make Rix heavy Scouts cost an extra 5K.
Ummm where to start.Vortrog wrote:QUOTE (Vortrog @ Jun 22 2010, 12:00 AM) 1 & 2 have been done before and no, leave the fighters alone. good teams can roll bios early anyway on a small to med map so why make their fighters weaker. this would apply to mass as well.
In relation to 2 as well, learn to use MRM or QF missiles on Bios. Size is only a problem for IC Lt ints. that said, yes TF would be annoying, but TF already has a strong opening, just like IC.
Halve the paydays to make miners more critical is the right move. If you can mine to tech, then you deserve to win. If you think Bios ships are too powerful for their equivalents, make them more expensive to justify the power.
From that point of view, make Rix heavy Scouts cost an extra 5K.
How does a good team roll bios early ona small or medium map? All bios needs to do is get a tech base out, let their miners die and just keep rushing the enemies miners over and over then ripping their pods home. Bios is one of the most OP factions on small maps imo.
I'm honestly not sure how using QF on bios fighters is a solution. Also I'm not sure what you expect people to do IF THEY ARE EXPANSION.
I'm not down with making bios @#(! more expensive tech wise at that is part of the faction we shouldn't touch at this point in time.
This thread is not about rixians afaik.
I'm sorry I don't remember any of it. For you the day spideycw graced your squad with utter destruction was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Sunday
Idanmel wrote:QUOTE (Idanmel @ Mar 19 2012, 05:54 AM) I am ashamed for all the drama I caused, I have much to learn on how to behave when things don't go my way.
My apologies.
