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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:20 pm
by Dorjan
Drizzo wrote:QUOTE (Drizzo @ Oct 19 2010, 04:17 PM) Which is the arbiter to my point
My point still stands. Flying an int in the most basic of senses IS the easiest to be "effective" with. It takes more skill for a fig pilot to be as effective and doublely so for a SF (or at least more patience).
Yeah there are "advanced" skills you can learn for ints etc but most people don't. They avg "having fun with ints" jocky are people who just boost around and shoot. YouknowwhatImeanstopbeingdifficault
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:21 pm
by notjarvis
Dorjan wrote:QUOTE (Dorjan @ Oct 19 2010, 04:13 PM) Edit: in before alien posts more random "I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG I'M AMAZING"
This post has been edited by Dorjan: Today, 04:15 PM
Alien51 wrote:QUOTE (Alien51 @ Oct 19 2010, 04:19 PM) Doesn't 'LESS SKILL' = 'EASIER'? Killing stuff involves flying, if not mostly flying. Killing doesn't have to mean base dmg; it could mean ramming, it could mean proxing, it could mean shooting, it could mean using a missile to kill. Out of the basic ships of Allegiance, Ints are the easiest to kill with.
If you can't fill in the blanks, I could help. But please ask if you need help, cause unless you do I expect people to use their head and fill in those blanks.
Dorj.
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:25 pm
by Dorjan
Alien51 wrote:QUOTE (Alien51 @ Oct 19 2010, 04:19 PM) Doesn't 'LESS SKILL' = 'EASIER'? Killing stuff involves flying, if not mostly flying. Killing doesn't have to mean base dmg; it could mean ramming, it could mean proxing, it could mean shooting, it could mean using a missile to kill. Out of the basic ships of Allegiance, Ints are the easiest to kill with.
If you can't fill in the blanks, I could help. But please ask if you need help, cause unless you do I expect people to use their head and fill in those blanks.
Are you so stupid that you actually think you're smart? Wow, not seen one like you around these parts for a long while.
Now you're trying to blur the lines and is exactly why Dis are fine and you don't understand the subtle difference.
You're an ignorant, stupid and damn right waste of human space of a person. Why do you think you're so much better than everyone else? Because your mummy told you so? Because no one loves you and so it must be that they're jealous of your enormous brain power? That you never find someone "on your level" so you end up talking to the goldfish because at least "they understand"?
I hope for your sake you're only ten and you're just a little brat like most of us are at that age. If you're older, well I hope you're removed from the gene pool before you procreate.
Good day.
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:40 pm
by Adept
And with that, I think this thread finally vanishes into rants...
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:43 pm
by spideycw
If one more warning shows up in my inbox Alien51, you won't be posting here anymore.
At least READ what people are writing
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:29 pm
by Jimen
Adept wrote:QUOTE (Adept @ Oct 19 2010, 11:40 AM) And with that, I think this thread finally vanishes into rants...
I don't see why; some very good points were raised during the thread, with no rebuttal other than Icky covering his ears and treating it like a Weylin thread.
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:35 pm
by Dorjan
Jimen wrote:QUOTE (Jimen @ Oct 19 2010, 05:29 PM) I don't see why; some very good points were raised during the thread, with no rebuttal other than Icky covering his ears and treating it like a Weylin thread.
Unfortunately the OP is doing just that.
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:35 pm
by Icky
Jimen wrote:QUOTE (Jimen @ Oct 19 2010, 12:29 PM) I don't see why; some very good points were raised during the thread, with no rebuttal other than Icky covering his ears and treating it like a Weylin thread.
If by "covering his ears and treating it like a Gaylin thread" you mean "offering a very specific rebuttal to the entire premise of the thread" then you are correct:
Icky wrote:QUOTE (Icky @ Sep 5 2010, 08:04 AM) I wasn't going to chime in here because I have been so inactive recently, but:
How long will it take all you voobs to realize that exp is NOT over powered - it is played more because it is more FUN. Mini has the worst damage mod against util hull of the 3 main techpaths' weapons. Ints are meant to be ship-to-ship fighters.
If ints kill your miners, it is because you suck.
If ints kill your cons, it is because you suck.
If ints camp your bases for a bomb run, (surprise surprise) it's because you $#@!ing suck.
Don't touch PPs. An int can carry ONE $#@!ING PP without losing either fuel or ammo. That means he has ONE SHOT to see something for about 3 seconds. This is not OP. Also, ints carrying PPs mean they are more likely to lose them and give them to the other team, which will $#@! up HTT runs. It's a tradeoff and it is balanced.
Don't touch boost. I cannot believe this even came up, but I CAN believe Adept agrees with it
In order for an int to get boost2/boost3, he has to pod someone that has it, have the presence of mind to pick it up if it does indeed drop (which isn't 100% of the time), swap out his old booster, and fly home without dying. If you pod him he loses it. If he changes ships, he loses it.
Cry me a $#@!ing river about the boost. Next you will be saying that KB is unfair because it makes people that are better than you do more damage.
$#@! off, don't touch exp. The sig nerf was PERFECT. If ints can kill all your miners now, you either don't have probes or don't have sufficient miner d. Ints are easy as hell to see coming. If they boost you can see them across the whole sector. IF you see 3 boosting ints heading to your miner sector, get those bitches out of there. If you don't see those ints, you deserve to lose.
I repeat: Cry me a river because you suck.
Icky wrote:QUOTE (Icky @ Sep 5 2010, 08:39 AM) Adept, I think you may have trouble reading. Ints are the WORST at killing cons/miners/drones. Nobody seems to acknowledge that. They aren't the best at everything. It's a sliding scale as it should be:
Ints - best at killing ships, worst at drones. Can't rip, hard to react quickly. Can absorb a lot of damage.
Figs - Decent at everything, easy to rip around the map and react. Take decent damage.
SFs - Kickass at killing drones, can rip but very slowly. Can't take much damage.
The system works, stop $#@!ing with it please. Everything does not need to be improved.
Also, I am not stupid enough to go toe-to-toe vs an int in a fig. If you are maybe that is part of the reason for this thread existing.
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:50 pm
by Spunkmeyer
Regarding ints being worst at killing miners... That's true at light and std level (although I would argue the difference is slight) but it disappears at the advanced level. Ints are hard to hit since they are more maneuverable, and have more hp, and increased damage compensates for the damage factor. So you are looking at (for the int) the same amount of damage being applied for a longer time.
And they are only easy to see if you are rushing a miner, otherwise I don't typically boost around on my way in. A fig has 175 sig total, an int only 100, so the int is still stealthier.
Off-topic, but a good lesson all wanna-be commanders should learn from what Icky said: if you want to defend your miners, make sure the adjacent sector is probed to hell, and you are paying attention and actively managing miners. I bet most of you are screaming "defend Miners!" when ints are already in the sector, trying to get them out of dodge after that and then blaming the team for no miner D when the miner dies. That never worked and ain't gonna work unless you have a huge chunk of your team dedicated to miner D (which means a huge chunk of your team not attacking the enemy and therefore not winning the game.)
Back to the topic...Dorjan is right on the money. So how are you going to resolve that whole skill & simplicity issue? You can't, not with minor changes to ints. I would like to see a squad core though, that entices squads (who should, in theory, have capable players who can use sfs and figs properly) to treat exp, sup and tac equally, so decisions would be made on the best rock, rather than the best U rock. Only then you could talk about applying lessons learned there to pickup games.
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:13 pm
by Jimen
Icky's "worst at killing drones" thing is a ridiculous false premise anyway. He's basing it on mini's poor damage output against util hull, but that does not mean that ints are the worst at killing miners, only that they take the longest to kill undefended miners. Certainly, that's one scenario in which a miner can die. But when it comes to "boosting two sectors to the enemy's miners, killing a heavy defensive force, and coming out of that furball with enough remaining combat capacity to easily crush the miner", ints reign supreme. It's silly to pretend that speed, distance, and ship-to-ship combat ability don't play any part at all in miner o; damage classes aren't the only variable.