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Papsmear
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Post by Papsmear »

phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Feb 20 2019, 10:35 AM) Well we'll still need pipe fixtures for like steam and stuff which is pretty close to what you do, right? You'll be fine.
Gee thanks!
Yes I did a steamfitter's apprenticeship but I make a much better living working as a welding inspector on pipeline/refinery & power plant projects.
Hence the reason I support oil & gas pipeline projects.
As I said I am biased.
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Grimmwolf_GB
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Post by Grimmwolf_GB »

Papsmear wrote:QUOTE (Papsmear @ Feb 20 2019, 03:09 PM) I agree that nuclear power to produce electricity is by far better than burning fossil fuels.
At least fossile fuels can be recycled by plants. This takes a long time, but that time is shorter than the time it takes for nuclear waste to decay. We still do not have one single final dump for nuclear fuel anywhere in the world. It is still housed in usually unsafe places (considering the tens of thousands of years it takes for the material to become less harmful).
Papsmear wrote:QUOTE (Papsmear @ Feb 20 2019, 03:09 PM) Sadly everything plastic is also made from oil as well as the majority of vehicles on the roads and ships at sea run on fuel.
Until someone can develop a non oil based substitute for plastic and replace every engine on the planet with one that runs on electricity, we are stuck relying on oil.
To be honest, apart from littering, plastics are really quite cool. You save a lot of energy in transport (because it is lighter than most other materials previously used), improving its CO2 balance. And when you are done with the plastic, you can burn it as fuel. Like my macromolecular chemistry prof always said: plastics are solid form fuel. It is better than burning it directly. :)
Also, only a small part of the global fuel is used for plastics. If we would stop burning fuel directly, we would have enough for plastics for a very long time.
Broodwich
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Post by Broodwich »

Papsmear wrote:QUOTE (Papsmear @ Feb 20 2019, 06:09 AM) Until someone can develop a non oil based substitute for plastic and replace every engine on the planet with one that runs on electricity, we are stuck relying on oil.

That being said, we might as well make money selling oil until oil replacements can be developed and implemented world wide.
The main goal of taxing oil/coal more is to provide more incentive *for* researching their replacements. The free market is the most efficient way of accomplishing things, making it more expensive to run fossil fuels gives more expensive alternatives a better chance of someone dumping money into its research. I think that's lost on a lot of people on both sides of the debate.

If gas were still 5c/gallon, you really think anyone would give a $#@! about electric cars?
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ryujin
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Post by ryujin »

It's kinda cool to have lived through peak oil...
Glad I don't have kids- I don't envision a very bright future.
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Terran
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Post by Terran »

Ryujin wrote:QUOTE (Ryujin @ Feb 20 2019, 09:43 PM) It's kinda cool to have lived through peak oil...
Glad I don't have kids- I don't envision a very bright future.
kids will be fine - they'll work on the asteroid mines :D
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zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

Grimmwolf_GB wrote:QUOTE (Grimmwolf_GB @ Feb 20 2019, 09:55 AM) At least fossile fuels can be recycled by plants. This takes a long time, but that time is shorter than the time it takes for nuclear waste to decay. We still do not have one single final dump for nuclear fuel anywhere in the world. It is still housed in usually unsafe places (considering the tens of thousands of years it takes for the material to become less harmful).
I mean, sure, but current use is 40g per person per year of spent nuclear fuel, more than 90% of which is reusable in some form of energy production chain.

Compared to 2,700,000g per person per year of carbon dioxide.

It might be harder to store long term, but the sheer difference in quantity more than makes up for that, plus it's far, far easier to store materials that are naturally solid than materials that are naturally gaseous. We can separate nuclear waste from the environment. The only thing we can do with fossil fuel waste is watch it float into the air and literally kill everyone.

And in the meantime, you can see that the supposed renewable revolution in Germany still has you guys getting on average about 38% of your energy sources from coal. I would like you to cite anyone who thinks that's better for the environment than what France is doing, whose fossil fuel use is about 13% of their total energy source.

I'll buy that the time of renewables is here when someone actually manages to make renewables work.


QUOTE To be honest, apart from littering, plastics are really quite cool. You save a lot of energy in transport (because it is lighter than most other materials previously used), improving its CO2 balance. And when you are done with the plastic, you can burn it as fuel. Like my macromolecular chemistry prof always said: plastics are solid form fuel. It is better than burning it directly. :)
Also, only a small part of the global fuel is used for plastics. If we would stop burning fuel directly, we would have enough for plastics for a very long time.[/quote]
Plastics are insanely cool. They are incredibly useful as low-weight, high-durability, high-flexibility materials that are relatively easy to work with. You can make basically anything with plastic and it likely won't ever decay because of how stable it is. That we burn so much of the potential plastic as fossil fuels is... criminal, really.
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minigun
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Post by minigun »

In the Permian in west Texas their building the world's largest battery together with a solar farm of the same size. Supposed to be a 495MW storage system. Texas produces 24GW from wind. With more wind, solar, battery projects in the works. renewable energy isn't all that dead with all that oil and gas.
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Raveen
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Post by Raveen »

Scotland has had days where they used only renewable energy as I understand it. Not to say there isn't a long way to go, and Scotland has lots of energy resources combined with low population density but the road is there waiting for us to take the steps along it.

Until then, nuclear. Yes it's bad but as I see it, it's the least bad option right now. We don't have any time to wean ourselves off carbon based energy. We have to just accept that it has to stop now.
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Papsmear
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Post by Papsmear »

I worked on the first ever commercial carbon capture project a few years back which was built at a coal fired power plant.
It was a very interesting project which according to what I have read, CO2 emissions are being reduced by 90% and SO2 emissions are being reduced by 100%.
Carbon capture research continues and emissions should be even lower on future projects.

Renewable energy is by far the best way to go but until it can supply 100% of the world's power needs, keep the taps open and the derricks pumping.
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zombywoof
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Post by zombywoof »

Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Feb 21 2019, 05:04 AM) Scotland has had days where they used only renewable energy as I understand it. Not to say there isn't a long way to go, and Scotland has lots of energy resources combined with low population density but the road is there waiting for us to take the steps along it.
One of the problems here (and you can see it in the graph of German power production) is the unpredictability of power generation by renewables. On the link I posted above, on the 11th they generated 42GW from solar+ wind, the next day 23, the next day 33, then 26... stability in your power grid is kind of important.

It's also worth noting that you can't install 100GW of solar panel production and get 100GW out. For example, the installed capacity of solar power in Germany is ~43 GW, which if operated for the 1625 hours (mean annual sunshine hours) would get ~70 TWH while their reported actual generation was ~35 TWH. Assuming pump storage is feasible and is 90% efficient, assuming pump storage is not needed during the 1625 daylight hours, and assuming off-peak demand is ~60GW, the installed capacity for Germany's solar power via pump storage would have to be 585GW.

Wind is better because it can be run longer, but you're still looking at efficiencies of around 20%, meaning that to cover the 60GW off-peak time where solar is not available, you would have to install 300GW of capacity.

Nuclear can run at about 90% max capacity safely (provided you don't, like, hit the plant with a tsunami or something), so to cover the 60GW off-peak time when solar is not available, you would need to install 67GW of capacity.

It takes about 3 acres of solar power to generate 1GWH/year, which translates to about .0002 GW/acre, so getting up to 585GW (excluding pump storage locations) would be 293,000 acers of solar panels, or 1200 square kilometers of solar panels. Compare to, say, Diablo Canyon power generation facility in California (which happens to be close to a fault line) located on a 90-acre facility that has a nameplate capacity of 2.2GW and has historically run at 87% capacity for 30+ years (with no incidents): .02 GW/acre.

Cost of production of Diablo Canyon was ~$13000m, which means startup costs are about $6800m per GW. Cost of production of Solarpark Meuro was ~$158m with nameplate capacity of 168MW which will operate at the ~12% (more like 10) capacity for a total cost of $7800m per GW. Collgar wind farm, in Australia, cost about $530m for installed capacity of 206MW with projected 40% actual, or $6400m per GW.
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