PCore007

Deathrender · Post by **Deathrender** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:45 pm

Energy usage on Sig could be upped a bit, 3 min cloak time is way too much.

Hunt3 is definitely "Right Click to Win". Damage or lock time nerf?

Other tech paths don't need to be buffed, tac just needs to be nerfed in terms of their damage dealing and longevity for how long sfs can effectively fight cloaked. Hunt3 adv sfs make defending against bombing runs too easy, tac's weakness is in its defense, and that weakness is completely eliminated during endgame.

kaiser33 · Post by **kaiser33** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:15 pm

best counter to tac is rix hvy scout since they have AC.. so im guessing we could give rix scouts a nerf so they can hunt down sfs with AC but have no prox.. that would require choosing whether to camp alephs with prox and risk being downed by sf from afar, OR going AC and being unable to use prox so they are not that OP vs hvy interceptors or sup either but can easly kill pesky sfs..

kaiser33 · Post by **kaiser33** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:19 pm

oh, and give all scouts overall a scan range boost so you dont have a 500 metter sf cloacked on your nose.. its unrealistic to not be able to see a ship THAT close.. you wouldnt even need scanners to see a ship right in fron of you.. any sf should be visible by scouts at at least 1k range, or make it so that only hvy scouts have scanners large enough to pick cloacked sig3 adv sfs from up to 1.5k range

making scouts more deadly in hunting sfs as they should be

ThePhantom032 · Post by **ThePhantom032** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:02 pm

changes to scout scanranges are not going to happen, as it changes way more than just finding sfs.

Probes are easier to find, low htts and low sig bbrs will be spotted further away, etc... Much easier to only rework the stealth system instead of the WHOLE signature system of alleg so it still works the same way afterwards...

kaiser33 · Post by **kaiser33** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:52 pm

Phantom032 wrote:QUOTE (Phantom032 @ Nov 17 2014, 02:02 PM) changes to scout scanranges are not going to happen, as it changes way more than just finding sfs.

Probes are easier to find, low htts and low sig bbrs will be spotted further away, etc... Much easier to only rework the stealth system instead of the WHOLE signature system of alleg so it still works the same way afterwards...

true, i of course did not think about the whole sig scan thing on every other thing. so yeah just messing with the sf sig and sigcloack % or duration could make a difference maybe sigcloack3 is too powerfull, the duration is also a bit high sfs can spend a lot of time shooting sniper without recharging cloack.. however, i would not touch duration but instead reduce the % a little bit

Post by **zombywoof** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:20 pm

Phantom032 wrote:QUOTE (Phantom032 @ Nov 17 2014, 06:47 AM) This is the part that does not follow the usual 25% increment/tech level and would be what I will try to find a solution for in december, because I believe nerfing hunter damage is the easy way out - a way to nerf tac that doesnt adress the actual problem.

I may have misrepresented my issues with hunter.

Hunters suck because there's no counterplay. If someone gets a missile lock on you there is nothing you can do beyond pressing the spacebar and hoping the beeping stops. Especially with hunter 3, because it deals so much damage that you can't even crossnan out of it because if your shields are down, even if you are at full health, you die.

The commonality between the hunter problem and the general tac problem is that neither allows room for counterplay. Even fixing adv tech sig stuff won't change the fact that hunter 2 (with GAs) and hunter 3 (with or without GAs) is unfun bull@#(! to play with or against. There's no skill being tested, it's just... did I get lock? Did the chaff fail to make it miss? Weeee I win. When you get into SF vs SF battles, sure, it becomes skill testing... but the skill tested there is "was I dumb enough to mount missiles?"

Compare it to, say, Quickfires. Quickfires are skill testing because they reward you for watching your target's chaff and seeing when it's gone. They also aren't game-changing when they land, they offer a fair amount of damage that helps fighters overcome the damage difference between minigun and gat. Also they're not always the best choice: sometimes you want dumbfires (con attack, some forms of bbr defense, miner attack) instead.

Except with sfs and hunters, you always want hunters except for the corner cases where you use killer, there's no skill in right clicking when you get lock, they completely change the way the fight goes if they hit because they deal so much damage, and there's no reliable way to avoid them.

Quite frankly hunters need a damage nerf... or scouts need an HP perk. Personally I'm in favor of giving scouts a slight bump in HP because the harder a scout is to kill the more teamwork is required when on miner offense or bbr defense.

Phantom032 wrote:QUOTE (Phantom032 @ Nov 17 2014, 02:02 PM) changes to scout scanranges are not going to happen, as it changes way more than just finding sfs.

Probes are easier to find, low htts and low sig bbrs will be spotted further away, etc... Much easier to only rework the stealth system instead of the WHOLE signature system of alleg so it still works the same way afterwards...

I agree, I was just including another option.

Personally I'd touch up SF overall sig and fiddle with the energy of cloaks and sfs just like you said.

Post by **zombywoof** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:34 pm

Raven_42 wrote:QUOTE (Raven_42 @ Nov 17 2014, 09:12 AM) How about a reduction in their scan range, and reduction in (adv, hvy) scout signature. This could also make them use more energy getting nearer to eye targets with cloak engaged, and increasing the time thye have to spend walking out of scan range also to recharge.

Right now adv/hvy scouts have a sig of .5 without shields or missiles. With their scan range (which IS 3k iirc, I'm at work) they can see an SF that's firing on them.

The problem with that though, as I see it, is they can't see a cloaked sf that's 2k away that fires a hunter 3 which is a 1hko. Tracking the missiles back to where they're being fired from is probably the best part of fighting against tac at the moment.

Reducing the scan range of SFs to, say, 1500 would have interesting consequences to bombing. Coupled with a reduction in hunter 3 damage (which I still think is strictly necessary), it would mean that sfs would have to get within 1500m (not coincidentally the range of AC1) of the adv/hvy scouts to see them... even closer if the scouts didn't wear their shields. It would not seriously impact SF play against ints, figs, or miners. If SF scan range were reduced to 1500 I think it would be interesting to add some range to AC 2/3 and buffing AC3 to have 1700 range.

kaiser33 wrote:QUOTE (kaiser33 @ Nov 17 2014, 12:15 PM) best counter to tac is rix hvy scout since they have AC.. so im guessing we could give rix scouts a nerf so they can hunt down sfs with AC but have no prox.. that would require choosing whether to camp alephs with prox and risk being downed by sf from afar, OR going AC and being unable to use prox so they are not that OP vs hvy interceptors or sup either but can easly kill pesky sfs..

Why do we need to nerf rix hvy scouts? Rix hvy scouts are currently the most fun ship to fly against SFs by a fairly large margin. You don't feel completely helpless and it's not like if you eye them at 1k they can just cloak up and move to the side before you get in weapon's range.

Vortrog · Post by **Vortrog** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:59 am

Please don't do to Adv tac what we did to XRM2 heavy bombers.
But yes, make it more energy managed so if you do that right, you deserve to own any other tech.

ThePhantom032 · Post by **ThePhantom032** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:35 am

Vortrog wrote:QUOTE (Vortrog @ Nov 18 2014, 01:59 AM) Please don't do to Adv tac what we did to XRM2 heavy bombers.
But yes, make it more energy managed so if you do that right, you deserve to own any other tech.

Whats wrong with xrm hvy bombers?
I thought they worked decently now, even if a bit expensive to get.

kaiser33 · Post by **kaiser33** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:49 am

more success rate for counters 2 and 3