Star Citizen

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:06 pm

Did some posts get moved or something? I really don't know why kickstarter talk is in this thread unless someone is kickstarting a utility company (which I might do seeing as I need no power plants)

TurkeyXIII · Post by **TurkeyXIII** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:27 am

I'm under the impression that kickstarter promises are not legally binding.

Andon · Post by **Andon** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:43 am

Kickstarter was only a small portion of it. There's other things as well.

I don't think it'll be vaporware, though. It may end up very BAD, but doubtful it'll be vaporware.

Post by **Raveen** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:50 am

HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Oct 29 2013, 10:06 PM) Did some posts get moved or something? I really don't know why kickstarter talk is in this thread unless someone is kickstarting a utility company (which I might do seeing as I need no power plants)

No idea, I moved them back into this thread anyway.

notjarvis · Post by **notjarvis** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:36 am

NightRychune wrote:QUOTE (NightRychune @ Oct 29 2013, 07:37 PM) yeah there's not really anything stopping someone from putting together an amazing pitch for a thing with a shell company, getting 5 million dollars from people, and then vanishing with the money

considering kickstarter takes a percentage cut of whatever your project gets in funds, aside from the reputation hit, they're still making money from people getting scammed, and even then kickstarter can abscond from any kind of responsibility for it

People have tried it to be honest. This was one of the biggest ones

takingarms1 · Post by **takingarms1** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:45 pm

Seems to me if you were going to game this thing, you just have an amazing pitch, and put a small portion of the money toward your goal and do a half-assed job, then walk away with most of the cash.

NightRychune · Post by **NightRychune** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:16 pm

yeah - it'd be a lot easier to do with a video game project than it would with some other marketed product

e: simply for the reason that you can put forward a few proofs of concept (concept art, a video of an extremely early build that looks halfway decent), write a good pitch, and then if your game's genre hits a strong note with consumers or fills a gap in the market - like the lack of PC RPGs which wasteland 2 looks to fill, or the lack of space sim games like star citizen looks to fill - you'll get a strong response from your backers, and once the funding/pledge phase is over, you aren't legally obligated to actually fulfill anything

Bacon_00 · Post by **Bacon_00** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:33 pm

NightRychune wrote:QUOTE (NightRychune @ Oct 29 2013, 12:37 PM) yeah there's not really anything stopping someone from putting together an amazing pitch for a thing with a shell company, getting 5 million dollars from people, and then vanishing with the money

considering kickstarter takes a percentage cut of whatever your project gets in funds, aside from the reputation hit, they're still making money from people getting scammed, and even then kickstarter can abscond from any kind of responsibility for it

Well, except that it's illegal. People can do whatever they want in the real world, too, but it doesn't mean it's "OK" and that there will be no consequences for that person. Yeah they can try to "dissappear," but doing a Kickstarter is a basic contract. You are promising people a service for money. If you don't provide the service, you've broken the law. So you can try to disappear with your five million, but I would imagine the FBI would be quite interested in you, just like they are for anybody that commits fraud across state lines.

What I'm saying is that Kickstarter isn't inherently a frauder's dream come true. It's just as safe as investing in some brick-and-mortar start-up.

Malicious Wraith · Post by **Malicious Wraith** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:49 pm

Bacon wrote:QUOTE (Bacon @ Oct 31 2013, 02:33 PM) Well, except that it's illegal. People can do whatever they want in the real world, too, but it doesn't mean it's "OK" and that there will be no consequences for that person. Yeah they can try to "dissappear," but doing a Kickstarter is a basic contract. You are promising people a service for money. If you don't provide the service, you've broken the law. So you can try to disappear with your five million, but I would imagine the FBI would be quite interested in you, just like they are for anybody that commits fraud across state lines.

What I'm saying is that Kickstarter isn't inherently a frauder's dream come true. It's just as safe as investing in some brick-and-mortar start-up.

That isn't true, you have some real rose colored shades for certain things. Kickstarter is very simply giving money to people, in the hopes they will create a product. The only thing you could construe as a "basic contract" is their obligation to fulfill their pledge benefits to you... but as others have pointed out, these are only as valuable as the object of benefit itself, not the donation you provided for them. You are not entitled to any refund.

The analogy to investing in a brick and mortar store is ridiculous. That implies part ownership, a return on ones investment, and a series of legal protections. Kickstarter gives you no claim to ownership, and no legal protections.

Bacon_00 · Post by **Bacon_00** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:00 pm

Oh for pete's sake. I am well aware how Kickstarter works. It suppose the word "investment" wasn't the best, but I forgot my audience in that you will nitpick the tiniest things.

Kickstarter creates a binding, legal contract between buyer and seller. The same type of basic contract that is created when you buy a $#@!ing piece of cheese at the grocery store. You are giving somebody money with the agreement that you will get the cheese. If the store takes your money and doesn't give you the cheese, that's illegal and is a breach of contract.

Kickstarter works the same way. You give somebody money in exchange for a piece of cheese. In this case, the cheese is a product that they have yet to develop.

So, if the person promising development of the product falls through on their end, you have EVERY legal right to sue their ass for breach of contract. It's exactly like buying anything else in the real world. The only difference is that Kickstarter is selling products that don't exist yet, so in a sense you're "investing" in the product. But instead of financial gain, your investment yields a product that you want to be made that doesn't currently exist.

There is definitely room for fraud, but there is room for fraud in every financial system. Kickstarter isn't some wild-west where anything goes and there are no laws. I am WELL aware that you need to be careful what you buy over Kickstarter, because who wants to sue somebody for $50? But at the same time, your purchase is still protected by the same laws that protect every other purchase you make.