Do you guys want to keep the carrier drone?

Mastametz · Post by **Mastametz** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:31 am

Win/Loss% of exp have less to do with actual tech path balance and more to do with... exp is more fun so will always be played the most; and as it is played the most, people will be better at playing it than they are at playing other tech paths, effectively making exp the best tech path.

phungus420 · Post by **phungus420** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:53 pm

If the carrier drone had to be researched for Belters that would solve the problem.

BillyBishop · Post by **BillyBishop** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:22 pm

phungus420 wrote:QUOTE (phungus420 @ Feb 19 2012, 07:53 PM) If the carrier drone had to be researched for Belters that would solve the problem.

Hmm, actually, yea that's a thought.

Tie carriers to sy, sy off means you have to research basic carrier tech for all factions (lt carrier for giga) at a cost of half of enh carrier?

phungus420 · Post by **phungus420** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:05 am

RoyBrown wrote:QUOTE (RoyBrown @ Feb 19 2012, 01:22 PM) Tie carriers to sy, sy off means you have to research basic carrier tech for all factions (lt carrier for giga) at a cost of half of enh carrier?

I don't understand the sentiment that carrier drones should be nerfed in general. I've been playing alot the past couple of weeks, and carrier drones haven't been a problem, except against Belters. Belters needs a serious nerf w/ the carrier drone (and I think forcing them to research them would fix that, as it'd slow it down, and make them pay for it). Most factions in this game work fine as is with carrier drones, and nerfing carriers in general is just going to be an indirect buff to expo.

BillyBishop · Post by **BillyBishop** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:09 am

I'll endeavour for the rest of the month to incorporate carriers into evil plans.

Post by **pkk** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:28 pm

Treasure rate discussion move here:
http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/index...showtopic=65456

BillyBishop · Post by **BillyBishop** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:45 pm

Thanks.

Nightflame · Post by **Nightflame** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:06 am

If carriers are so overpowered in small games, why don't you see them more? For most factions, buying a carrier is an exception rather than the rule. That's because most factions have to give up on a con to get an early carrier. Let's look:

Belters: Has particularly good starting figs, w/ nan. Can get a carrier without losing a base. Usually gets a carrier.
Bios: Starting figs, has to trade a con for a carrier. Generally does not get a carrier.
Dregklar: Starting lt ints, Has to trade a con to get a carrier, can't get all cons normally anyway. Very rarely gets a carrier.
GT: Starting figs. Can get a carrier without tradeoff, because it can't get refs anyway. Sometimes gets a carr.
Giga: Scouts only. Lots of money, cheap carrier. Frequently gets a carrier.
IC: Starting lt ints. Has to trade a con for a carrier. Rarely gets one.
Rix: Has SR scouts, now has lt ints. Rarely gets a carr.
TF: Starting scouts. Has to trade a con for a carr. All cons are critical. Rarely gets a carr.
OH: No one plays OH. Could get a carr without major tradeoffs, and has starting figs.

It's not that carriers are overpowered, you'd see them more if they were. It's not that belter carriers are so much better than the rest. It's that belters have the money to get an early carr, and nothing better to spend it on. Therefore, you always see belter carriers.

Carriers are powerful when an enemy comm lets it end up in their mining sector. A decent camp, rush, or sitaw and miner control can stop that. You just need to treat carriers less like a ship, and more like an ultralight base. One fig isn't going to do anything fast enough. A rush of figs/ints/whatever will actually kill a carrier. A bomber can force the carrier to at least run. With some rams it can run down the carrier.

The point of this ramble is that you shouldn't nerf carriers, except maybe by rip rate in small games. Making belters research basic carrier doesn't fit very well either. For now, I suggest making belter carriers cost 5k. Their bombers still cost 500, why should their carriers get a cost boost?

Spunkmeyer · Post by **Spunkmeyer** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:18 am

The cost adjustment makes sense. It's IC that gets ship cost boost, not Belters.

But the problem with "you just need to treat carriers less like a ship, and more like an ultralight base" is they are super-cheap for a mobile base, even if ultra-light.

TheDevil · Post by **TheDevil** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:50 pm

We can reduce top speed of carrier, yes that would make moving carr across the map tiresome, but I think the point is to reduce mobility. We can then decrease rip time to increase its survivability. (but there will be a cost to ripping the carrier as thy walk slow getting them into position again will take time).

Edit: Actually moving them across the map wouldn't take that long, as carriers are usually bought with sup and as SUP you will have an forward teleport anyway.

Also make belts carr start as lt carr, belts benefit the most from early carrier mainly due to the facts that
- Hull bonus
- Fighter can kill attacker and nan carrier at same time
- Belters gain an early advantage by securing MKII tech making it really hard to kill an belts carrier