Libyan rebels capture parts of tripoli

madpeople · Post by **madpeople** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:11 pm

only admins can put html in posts, just link to the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXUSwT62goo

lexaal · Post by **lexaal** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:44 pm

MrChaos wrote:QUOTE (MrChaos @ Aug 23 2011, 03:57 AM) Actually Duscan's post I agree with quite a lot. its the EU fanboys who cannot see the dictator for the dead civilians who need a reality check. *#$@daffy is a @#(!bird tbs but as depots go, ESPECIALLY in the oil states, he was pretty benevolent... as @#(!birds g9

As euro bitch i need to tell you that, altough he is one of the worst dick of all tators the current action of removing him and replacing him by an -yet unknown- new regime is an idea which will not work. I'm not saying that removing crazy dictators is a bad idea in general but there are already two examples of making things not really better. Iraq + Afghanistan are the reality check we talk about-. I really do not hope italy has a theocracy at point blank range, but that is one possible option among many.

Further details will be presented by adept.

_SRM_Nuke · Post by **_SRM_Nuke** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:36 pm

lexaal wrote:QUOTE (lexaal @ Aug 25 2011, 03:44 PM) As euro bitch i need to tell you that, altough he is one of the worst dick of all tators the current action of removing him and replacing him by an -yet unknown- new regime is an idea which will not work.

How is it unknown? There is a transitional government in place with ministers and parliamentarians from every region. They even have a draft constitution, set of laws and a civil service receiving regular paychecks. They have their own police force, their own army, navy and air force. They have their own airline. They have their own public utilities. They have their own blossoming public and private media sector, created in large part by returning expats, many of them Libyan-Americans. There is a functioning second government in waiting. To have such a well-established new administration is really quite rare in these situations. And the best part? It wasn't imposed on the Libyans by some foreign power, they created it from the ground up themselves.

Don't get me wrong though, it will not be a Jeffersonian democracy. Libyans don't want that. It has always been and remains a deeply conservative society, by far the most conservative in North Africa. But just because they have a different set of values and beliefs than we do doesn't mean that they are less deserving of the right to live, much less so even the basic rights and freedoms they are fighting for.

NightRychune · Post by **NightRychune** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:37 pm

i really like this particular essay on this subject

http://slouchingcolumbia.wordpress.com/201...-un-coup-doeil/

Viscur · Post by **Viscur** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:15 pm

There were to many big words in that essay. Can someone dumb it down to a 6th grade reading level for me?

Post by **FreeBeer** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:04 am

Viscur wrote:QUOTE (Viscur @ Aug 25 2011, 08:15 PM) There were to many big words in that essay. Can someone dumb it down to a 6th grade reading level for me?

"Homegrown" is different, but can be better than the usual @#(! you get.

MrChaos · Post by **MrChaos** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:16 am

lexaal wrote:QUOTE (lexaal @ Aug 25 2011, 01:44 PM) As euro bitch i need to tell you that, altough he is one of the worst dick of all tators the current action of removing him and replacing him by an -yet unknown- new regime is an idea which will not work. I'm not saying that removing crazy dictators is a bad idea in general but there are already two examples of making things not really better. Iraq + Afghanistan are the reality check we talk about-. I really do not hope italy has a theocracy at point blank range, but that is one possible option among many.

Further details will be presented by adept.

lexaal

See NATO went into a soverign nation and killed alot of people all in the name what they think was right and wrong. They did it remotely and $#@!ed up alot of innocent people. In the process they pulled the US into it because well even such a light weight like Libya is to much for pretty much the combined militaries of Europe's most prosperous nations.

If Libya didn't have oil they'd have let them all die. Any of the other @#(!headed dictator in Africa they've never done a thing about is an awesome example. Againrealize while he was a lunatic, he was NOT as bad as any of a number of other @#(!heads in power. While he was a wealthy man, he spent BILLIONS on public work. While he sponsered terrorism. When shown the error of his ways via the long arm of the bomber he behaved himsellf. Actually of the three countries mentioned (as was bound to happen) Libya gave the least reason to be invaded of the three. If you see this as different and heroic it makes you a fanboy

Btw I wasn't call YOU or Adept a fanboy but if the shoe fits wear it.

edit: My reading comprehension put words in lexaal post that weren't. Humble apologies and made about NATO rather lexaal
edit2: To be clear we owe the Brits, at the very least, for all their support for the last decade and that was enough for me to support this one with men, money, and arms

_SRM_Nuke · Post by **_SRM_Nuke** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:48 am

MrChaos wrote:QUOTE (MrChaos @ Aug 25 2011, 09:16 PM) If Libya didn't have oil they'd have let them all die.

Probably true. The world lets stuff like this happen all too often. It shouldn't have to rise to the level of a dictator launching airstrikes and scud missiles at his own people for the world to do more than issue hallow statements.

/cue camarobot "its not our problem" post (ps cam, youmight like this)

Camaro · Post by **Camaro** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:10 am

_SRM_Nuke wrote:QUOTE (_SRM_Nuke @ Aug 25 2011, 03:48 PM) Probably true. The world lets stuff like this happen all too often. It shouldn't have to rise to the level of a dictator launching airstrikes and scud missiles at his own people for the world to do more than issue hallow statements.

/cue camarobot "its not our problem" post (ps cam, youmight like this)

I was actually just about to post that it still isn't our problem until I read your post.

Interesting fact about Somalia, they have one of the most advanced telecommunications industries in Africa. Still, anarchy isn't a desirable form of government.

I am not actually anti-war. I have no qualms with invading a country and claiming i as a colony to help us pay off our debts. I even have a 10 point plan to borrow more money from China and then take it over so we don't have to repay them.

What I AM against is going to war for no god damn reason or point. If we are only there to kick out some bum and install a supposed "puppet" government then GTFO. It ain't worth our time and it just pisses people off. If we are there to claim new lands for our Empire and then rule over it with law then fine... we can use the added tax revenue as we develop the third world into a first world country.

Of course Imperialism is so brutally unpopular these days that I just resign myself to being a non-interventionist.

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:48 pm

MrChaos wrote:QUOTE (MrChaos @ Aug 26 2011, 04:16 AM) stuff

Do I get this right that you see this being exactly the equivalent of the invasion of Iraq by the Coalition of the Drilling?

From where I'm standing it looks very different. The context is the Arab Spring, and a spontanious uprising against Gaddafi. It would have been pretty damn callous just to stand by and do nothing, especially as those people specifically asked for help from the West.

Now admittedly the West is quite deaf to such pleas more often than not, and what makes this different is the timing (Arab Spring) and it happening just accross the Med from the EU.

Still, I didn't think you were quite that cynical my Chaotic american friend.