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lol to suggestions of "idiot-friendly core" - pps are cheese in SG's as well as pugs. See RT-XT 29-hour game last year for details.

Haven't we already had like 20 different pp suggestions in the huge exp thread recently?

Also - to keep my sanity and not want to kill anyone, please stop using "ZOMG Hvy Scouts can carry so many PP's that they are CHEESE" as a reason. IF your tac and you let them get hvy scouts, you deserve to lose. PP's or no PP's.

My question to everyone here who think PP's need a nerf.
What are PP's doing now that makes them broken that we haven't had them doing for the last 4 years?

In another vein - Using PP's to find miners as exp. If you want this to stop happening, consider actually defending your miners and killing scouts. You could also consider the EXP fuel nerfs that have bandied about for years now rather then trying to balance for team stupidity.

OTDT_Hunter wrote:QUOTE (OTDT_Hunter @ Jan 27 2011, 09:03 AM) I would rather just have scouts-adv scouts. Back in AZ,

My god, we agree on something Hunter

But yeah, the scan range is the same. Heavy scouts have other nasty anti-tac and miner O features though, namely the QL missiles and ability to carry a turret.

I'd support taking the doubled cargo space from heavy scouts and adding it to adv scouts. That's the idea that I actually like with these things. If there is no 5k PP then the ability to carry lots of 3k PPs doesn't really matter that much as the adv scout has a hemispherical scan range anyway.

As a bonus we'd free up three tech slots by getting rid of the QL missiles. Of course we could do that anyway even if we keep the heavy scouts othervice as they are. The missile progression of 2 - 3 - 4 for scout - adv - heavy makes sense without the QLs. Then there is less reason for the rix heavy scouts mini AC as well, which makes it easier to turn all rix scouts to rip scouts again.

The problem I always had with pps is it's a 5k basic tech which is very effective at stopping every endgame, htts, tp2s, sbs are all massively easier to stop if you have pps to spot them with. Buying adv scouts by comparison is a lot more expensive and the range is nowhere near that of a default pp anyway. Also ships only have decent scan to the front so even giga lxy scouts and bios adv with ship sensor2 are inferior to pps.

It's never been so much a matter of techpath balance as making it harder to turtle. Turtles are $#@!ing boring games and imo should be discouraged.

Oh ok, I thought they were different.

Sounds like we should move scout tech into different techtree, bring out that Thorium rock. Lol that actually sounds pretty fun.

Ok then, so how much would it cost to justify it? 10k?

so we nerf pp's after many years because people don't want to learn to fly tac in 2011... what's next quickfires?

Isn't pulse probes a DN thing? Or does it go all the way back to Microsoft?

The more I think about it, the less I care about pulse probes at all. When I'm exp, they're nice to have against sfs, but I can do without them. When I'm in an sf, they're annoying to fly against, but I can deal with them.

It's the other factors -- ints hunting miners alone without scouts, pulse probes neutralizing endgame tech too easily, their ability to deprobe too well -- I find these really hard to justify or fix. And to that end, the whole discussion of "how do we nerf pulse probes so they're still useful but not useful ENOUGH (for arbitrary definitions of ENOUGH)" pussyfoots around the issue. Do we really need them at all?

I'm in favor of removing them, or otherwise making them crazy expensive, like 10k and requiring adv exp. (Oh wait, that's actually what we currently have).

Edit: maybe 10k is not expensive enough. If so, tie it to EMP cannon 2 and retro boost.

TheCorsair wrote:QUOTE (TheCorsair @ Jan 27 2011, 03:49 PM) what's next quickfires?

This may turn out to be more prophetic than you realize...