#FreeAllegiance

[Bard]

QUOTE (madpeople @ Aug 26 2010, 04:02 PM) Wait, bard banned imago for helping someone in the helpline channel?

No, I banned him for 24 hours for being abusive, I rescinded the ban hours ago, the same for tracbot, but #freeallegiance has been the helpline channel since I got +ano from ImmZ in 2007, it only got transformed into the dev channel when Imago decided it should be such post R5.

[Bard]

QUOTE (sambasti @ Aug 26 2010, 06:56 PM) Just the yearly Allegiance Development @#(!storm.


On the topic of Imago stirring up @#(!. He was talking about collecting alleg stats for a leaderboard/statistics thing. The only @#(! that stirs up is ... ... ... I'm sorry, I can't think of any right now. I'm pretty sure I had something to put there when I decided to write the post, but I can't think of it now.

That's actually a feature that the community should vote on and one that may prove very useful in the end. That's not up to me though, it's up to the players and it certainly had nothing to do with this. I certainly wouldn't call it "@#(! stirring".

[SP4WN]

Not getting involved in the current debate about bannage or such but, #FreeAllegiance has been the "Free Allegiance" channel for as long as I have been there, which is a long long time. It was neither the helpline channel nor the Development channel, just a channel where people from allegiance could go and discuss allegiance. I know that the wiki points to #FreeAllegiance if you need immediate help, but that, in my opinion, was just to direct the people who dont idle there regularly somewhere to go for help from the people who do idle there a lot.

I have no idea when exactly this "war" came about but the Free Allegiance channel should be open for any allegiance discussion that is not regarded as spam or abusive, helpline or development related.

I do however believe the bot needs his own place, like the one Cort set up for us(I use the term "us" on my loosely) to check progress and use without it clogging up the channel.

[spideycw]

I thought #FA was dead. I used to hang out there until I was constantly cursed out by Imago = (

[Jimen]

QUOTE (Bard @ Aug 26 2010, 10:09 PM) Coding for money, even if it is for a charity is not the way this game has ever worked. If you would like to revise your previous statements and start helping again, you need only send me a PM and you'll be added back into the dev group.

I can't believe I'm the only $#@!ing person who got Imago's point - it wasn't about money, it was about demonstrating that even just one person on this board is a decent $#@!ing human being (by having them donate willingly to charity) so that he could feel reassured that you $#@!ers were worth coding for.

QUOTE (Bard @ Aug 26 2010, 10:13 PM) No, I banned him for 24 hours for being abusive, I rescinded the ban hours ago, the same for tracbot, but #freeallegiance has been the helpline channel since I got +ano from ImmZ in 2007, it only got transformed into the dev channel when Imago decided it should be such post R5.

Maybe you should have told someone then, as the wiki page described #FreeAllegiance as "the official FAO channel" all the way up until yesterday. NOBODY ELSE EXCEPT YOU knew that the #FreeAllegiance channel wasn't actually a misc FreeAllegiance channel (and if it's not, then what the hell is? #RT? don't make me laugh)

QUOTE (Bard @ Aug 26 2010, 10:15 PM) That's actually a feature that the community should vote on and one that may prove very useful in the end. That's not up to me though, it's up to the players and it certainly had nothing to do with this. I certainly wouldn't call it "@#(! stirring".

Wait, since when did we vote on features? Right up until you started spazzing at Imago about everything, SOP was "the devs do what they want, $#@! the players, they're idiots anyway" (and that would probably be the RIGHT way to do things)

[Raveen]

QUOTE (Jimen @ Aug 27 2010, 07:23 AM) what the hell is? #RT?

#RollingThunder is the @RT squad channel (the clue's in the name). It was set up by and is maintained by members of Rolling Thunder as a place for the squad and our friends to chat. It is not an official Freeallegiance channel in the same way that our Mumble server is not the official Allegiance Mumble server.

[notjarvis]

QUOTE (Jimen @ Aug 27 2010, 06:23 AM) I can't believe I'm the only $#@!ing person who got Imago's point - it wasn't about money, it was about demonstrating that even just one person on this board is a decent $#@!ing human being (by having them donate willingly to charity) so that he could feel reassured that you $#@!ers were worth coding for.

Meh.
You show your a decent human being by treating your fellow humans decently.
I donate to charity, but I do so privately. It has nothing to do with anyone else. Using donating to charity as a any sort of character test is absolutely retarded.
QUOTE Maybe you should have told someone then, as the wiki page described #FreeAllegiance as "the official FAO channel" all the way up until yesterday. NOBODY ELSE EXCEPT YOU knew that the #FreeAllegiance channel wasn't actually a misc FreeAllegiance channel (and if it's not, then what the hell is? #RT? don't make me laugh)[/quote]
Meh
Bard has already said he was wrong to ban imago from the channel. I wish everyone would stop spazzing on this - it's an IRC channel. Big deal - people get kicked and banned all the tim.

QUOTE Wait, since when did we vote on features? Right up until you started spazzing at Imago about everything, SOP was "the devs do what they want, $#@! the players, they're idiots anyway" (and that would probably be the RIGHT way to do things)[/quote]
Nah. Then you end up with features like the inputmap one which hardly anyone thought was desparately needed. Some community input before we implement @#(! might be wise sometimes. Xynth did this well by starting threads for discussion etc. before he implemented some stuff, and I applaud him for it.

[notjarvis]

QUOTE (SP4WN @ Aug 27 2010, 03:21 AM) I do however believe the bot needs his own place, like the one Cort set up for us(I use the term "us" on my loosely) to check progress and use without it clogging up the channel.

Yup the bot has always been available on #allegiance.dev throughout all this.

I'm not sure why this channel isn't used more.

[madpeople]

Before replying to specific stuff, can I make the following suggestions:
1) make #FreeAllegiance the helpline only channel (actually I would prefer this to be the generic chit chat channel and #alleg to be the helpline, or even #AllegianceHelp or something involving the word 'Help')
2) make #allegiance.dev the official development channel
3) make #alleg the generic chitchat channel rather than development (the allegiance.dev looks more like the development channel)

Anyone have any objections to this? Alternately a ZL(s if this is cross jurisdiction) can step in and make it so and update the wiki accordingly.
I'm pretty sure people will stick to the right channels if they know what the right channels are. (may want some form of announcement too)

QUOTE (notjarvis @ Aug 27 2010, 10:14 AM) Yup the bot has always been available on #allegiance.dev throughout all this.

I'm not sure why this channel isn't used more.

Perhaps because no one (except you aparrently) knows it exists?
It's not listed on http://www.freeallegiance.org/FAW/index.php/IRC
And a new dev channel has been made a few days ago due to the aparrent lack of a dev channel.
http://www.freeallegiance.org/FAW/index.php/IRC

QUOTE (Bard @ Aug 27 2010, 03:13 AM) #freeallegiance has been the helpline channel since I got +ano from ImmZ in 2007, it only got transformed into the dev channel when Imago decided it should be such post R5.

This sounds like a communications failure - just about everyone here believed that it was the generic allegiance channel for all talk allegiance related. If people wanted to chat in realtime to helpline people #FreeAllegiance, if people wanted to talk generic stuff about alleg polotics #FreeAllegiance, if someone was having trouble getting alleg to build #FreeAllegiance, discussion of new features #Fre...
Which was further reinforced by the wiki saying it was the official channel (nothing about helpline only).

QUOTE (Bard @ Aug 27 2010, 03:09 AM) Coding for money, even if it is for a charity is not the way this game has ever worked.

True, but there isn't a rule against it.
I think Imago wants to dev for allegiance, he just felt that he was being given too much crap from those in charge that the only way he could protest was to stop developing. Since he didn't want to stop developing he found a way to give the facad of "I'm not going to do any more developing (unless someone donates to a charity) " while still being able to do some development because someone did donate to the charity.
It's not about the money, what you have is someone on strike who is looking for excuses to break their strike while still maintaing their strike to make a point to those in charge.
Someone (or more people) have done some things which have unimpressed/annoyed/upset/etc Imago. He will probably return to working as usual (if he hasn't already) when he feels he is being treated better and the work he is doing is being appreciated.

QUOTE I was out of line for banning you from the channel[/quote]This is constructive
QUOTE but you were spending all of your time swearing at people instead of being constructive.[/quote]Your use of 'all' is incorrect, in the screenshot posted he was quite clearly being constructive and not swearing.
Admittedly aspects of Imago's character could be better, it's jsut somethnig we'll have to deal with / work on.

QUOTE That is exactly the opposite of what has happened. I've done nothing (except ban him from IRC, and maybe some other things not being discussed here) but try as hard as I can to work WITH Imago since I took this position.
He told me he was done with all of this and he wasn't going to spend any more of his time on it.

That's his choice, I only removed him from the dev group after I was quite certain he meant what he said.
<snip>[/quote]
I kinda took his -will code for charity- as a sign he did want to continue doing dev work.
Anyway this feels like beating a dead horse so I think I will stop discussing the past and move onto considering what the next move is.

[SP4WN]

QUOTE (notjarvis @ Aug 27 2010, 10:14 AM) Yup the bot has always been available on #allegiance.dev throughout all this.

I'm not sure why this channel isn't used more.

I know this, Im always in both, but so was the bot, which wasnt needed.