Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:01 am
Ripcord GA is fine where it is, and is fine doing what it does. It is not broken and it is specifically designed for Supremacy. The supposed "point" to supremacy is the balance between offense (supposedly Tac, with its weak defensive tech) and defense (supposedly Exp, with its ships that aren't supposed to be able to go very far). I think of sup as the "quick response time" techpath. "OH @#(! BBR SIGHTED!" and ten figs are there in ten seconds because the stragglers are the ones who had to actually launch from base. Compare that to Exp, which is more, "OH @#(! BBR SIGHTED!" and then ten ints boost back from whatever they're doing, dock, and launch, and tac which is "OH @#(! BBR SIGHTED either we have two sector's notice or don't bother Ding because it's dead."
In that sense, rip GA makes the most sense in sup. All it does is passively make everything sup needs to do a little bit better: +10% expanding speed, -10% response time. It's perfect, because it doesn't turn figs into interceptors (like say, heavy booster did) but it does showcase the difference between figs and ints; namely the ability to get to any sector on the map in less than a minute no matter where you launch from, get the job done, and then get your ass back home because there's something else you need to do.
So yeah, just leave ripcord GA where it is and don't touch it. It's the ideal GA for sup, and that's a good thing rather than a bad thing.
@Ada: alternate GAs have been explored by at least Andon in particular. From what I recall, they don't work. Like, +10% fuel doesn't break the game, the game just doesn't realize that you have +10% fuel. I know that's the case for miner capacity (which you think would work since it's something we can change with faction modifiers) in particular.
@Drizzo: I agree that ship hull makes less sense for sup to have than ripcord GA but I'm not sure where to put it. Switching shield and hull GA makes some sense to me because it strengthens the natural combination of tacspansion; the hull GA really helps expansion while the sig GA really helps tac. I disagree that hull GA would make belters tac a monster though... belters SFs are unusually tough but I don't think giving it access to hull GA will break the techpath. If it does, I'll gladly admit I was wrong, but it's not something I worry about.
@Clay_Pidgeon: The GAs we have are the GAs we have, that is correct. You can (iirc) make a GA for anything, but it just won't work. Like, nothing will happen when you research it. There is a code change that's required somewhere for that to work.
@Troy: pw/ew damage cannot be unbound in ICE, iirc.
@Freyja:
QUOTE The problem SpkWill is that again, both are complete no brainers to get as TAC if those GAs where there, a must have RFN type of thing- I personally really hate that kind of thing. Having them in SUP, sure, SUP teams want to get Damage pretty quick and Tracking at some point, though again it's the nice tie in with TAC that makes it sort of a nice side GA for a TAC team to get a SUP and pretty important in SUP for bomb runs and related fighter fun.[/quote]
Which sup GAs aren't currently no brainers to purchase, though?
Agility GA helps you turn faster which helps you aim better, which is nice to have but infrequently bought
Sensor GA is almost never bought but at the same time it makes probes better, it makes it easier for scouts and figs to eye stuff, for bases to eye stuff... etc. All of the reasons that you would buy sig GA are exactly the same reasons your opponent would buy sensor GA, and more because it makes probing better/easier.
Hull GA lets your fighters, nans, bombers, cons, and miners live longer. Buy it.
Ripcord GA lets your fighters be better fighters and helps you expand faster. Buy it. If you're IC, it lets you mine faster and safer. Buy it twice; it's worth it.
Missile Damage GA lets your dumbfires hit harder and your ABs hit harder. Buy it.
Missile Track GA lets your quickfires and seekers hit more often, which is silly because you should be using dumbfires anyways.
Comparatively, look at exp:
He Speed is infrequently bought because it just means you run out of He3 faster
He Yield is a no-brainer because FREE MONEY YOU DOLT. Coms who do not buy this get mutiny-booted.
Base Shield/Hull is infrequently bought because it usually doesn't make all that much of a difference. 3 missiles kills an op with or without those GAs, iirc.
Accel GA is really good but not something to break the bank on
PW/EW Damage is crazy $#@!ing good because not only do your ints kill @#(! faster but your nans heal @#(! better too. Coms who do not buy this get mutiny-booted.
PW Range is bought whenever Brood is playing to lower his number of complaints. But seriously it makes your bullets travel faster which makes dodging more difficult for the enemy, which means more of your bullets hit the enemy, which means they die faster, which is a decidedly good thing.
Or tac:
Energy is bought because it makes SBs/SFs have longer cloak times and more firing time with snipers/utils
Ship Shield is infrequently bought because "sfs shouldn't have shields mounted." I guess it makes miners and cons a bit tougher. It's pretty good for giga tac; though, because it makes lxy sfs even tougher.
EW Range is infrequently bought because most of tac's power comes from hunter 3 not sniper 2.
From what I can see, sup has a lot more "really good" GAs than any other techpath, so I don't see what your problem is with having Tac have GAs that are "must buy" since every other techpath has at least 2.
@Spidey: If I had to change 1 GA, I would put missile track into tac. It just feels useless in sup, and sup gives so much to the tac techpath without it (ab2, minepack/df2 figs for D, missile damage, ews2).
p.s. I wish we were using one of those forums with collapsible spoilers so I could shorten the length of this post.
In that sense, rip GA makes the most sense in sup. All it does is passively make everything sup needs to do a little bit better: +10% expanding speed, -10% response time. It's perfect, because it doesn't turn figs into interceptors (like say, heavy booster did) but it does showcase the difference between figs and ints; namely the ability to get to any sector on the map in less than a minute no matter where you launch from, get the job done, and then get your ass back home because there's something else you need to do.
So yeah, just leave ripcord GA where it is and don't touch it. It's the ideal GA for sup, and that's a good thing rather than a bad thing.
@Ada: alternate GAs have been explored by at least Andon in particular. From what I recall, they don't work. Like, +10% fuel doesn't break the game, the game just doesn't realize that you have +10% fuel. I know that's the case for miner capacity (which you think would work since it's something we can change with faction modifiers) in particular.
@Drizzo: I agree that ship hull makes less sense for sup to have than ripcord GA but I'm not sure where to put it. Switching shield and hull GA makes some sense to me because it strengthens the natural combination of tacspansion; the hull GA really helps expansion while the sig GA really helps tac. I disagree that hull GA would make belters tac a monster though... belters SFs are unusually tough but I don't think giving it access to hull GA will break the techpath. If it does, I'll gladly admit I was wrong, but it's not something I worry about.
@Clay_Pidgeon: The GAs we have are the GAs we have, that is correct. You can (iirc) make a GA for anything, but it just won't work. Like, nothing will happen when you research it. There is a code change that's required somewhere for that to work.
@Troy: pw/ew damage cannot be unbound in ICE, iirc.
@Freyja:
QUOTE The problem SpkWill is that again, both are complete no brainers to get as TAC if those GAs where there, a must have RFN type of thing- I personally really hate that kind of thing. Having them in SUP, sure, SUP teams want to get Damage pretty quick and Tracking at some point, though again it's the nice tie in with TAC that makes it sort of a nice side GA for a TAC team to get a SUP and pretty important in SUP for bomb runs and related fighter fun.[/quote]
Which sup GAs aren't currently no brainers to purchase, though?
Agility GA helps you turn faster which helps you aim better, which is nice to have but infrequently bought
Sensor GA is almost never bought but at the same time it makes probes better, it makes it easier for scouts and figs to eye stuff, for bases to eye stuff... etc. All of the reasons that you would buy sig GA are exactly the same reasons your opponent would buy sensor GA, and more because it makes probing better/easier.
Hull GA lets your fighters, nans, bombers, cons, and miners live longer. Buy it.
Ripcord GA lets your fighters be better fighters and helps you expand faster. Buy it. If you're IC, it lets you mine faster and safer. Buy it twice; it's worth it.
Missile Damage GA lets your dumbfires hit harder and your ABs hit harder. Buy it.
Missile Track GA lets your quickfires and seekers hit more often, which is silly because you should be using dumbfires anyways.
Comparatively, look at exp:
He Speed is infrequently bought because it just means you run out of He3 faster
He Yield is a no-brainer because FREE MONEY YOU DOLT. Coms who do not buy this get mutiny-booted.
Base Shield/Hull is infrequently bought because it usually doesn't make all that much of a difference. 3 missiles kills an op with or without those GAs, iirc.
Accel GA is really good but not something to break the bank on
PW/EW Damage is crazy $#@!ing good because not only do your ints kill @#(! faster but your nans heal @#(! better too. Coms who do not buy this get mutiny-booted.
PW Range is bought whenever Brood is playing to lower his number of complaints. But seriously it makes your bullets travel faster which makes dodging more difficult for the enemy, which means more of your bullets hit the enemy, which means they die faster, which is a decidedly good thing.
Or tac:
Energy is bought because it makes SBs/SFs have longer cloak times and more firing time with snipers/utils
Ship Shield is infrequently bought because "sfs shouldn't have shields mounted." I guess it makes miners and cons a bit tougher. It's pretty good for giga tac; though, because it makes lxy sfs even tougher.
EW Range is infrequently bought because most of tac's power comes from hunter 3 not sniper 2.
From what I can see, sup has a lot more "really good" GAs than any other techpath, so I don't see what your problem is with having Tac have GAs that are "must buy" since every other techpath has at least 2.
@Spidey: If I had to change 1 GA, I would put missile track into tac. It just feels useless in sup, and sup gives so much to the tac techpath without it (ab2, minepack/df2 figs for D, missile damage, ews2).
p.s. I wish we were using one of those forums with collapsible spoilers so I could shorten the length of this post.
