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[notjarvis]

QUOTE (spideycw @ Nov 5 2009, 02:55 PM) The majority of your peers wanted SY to be used more often in games though. While you disagree with it - it is something you will have to live with unless the majority of the community changes their mind on what they want SY to be.

Understood, I was just registering my frustration (which is why I stated it was my personal opinion).

At least Cashto agrees with me at the top of this thread....



Edit:
On my point of Tac versus SY, can we nerf the range of turrets a bit or something? We got 2 or 3 SFs in the same sector as a Cap and 3 miners a couple of times the other night, but as soon as we were eyed by the miner we died to the Corv sitting in the middle of the sector within a couple of seconds without killing the miner.

In this instance the Corv totally negated the SFs major strength by covering several miners which were a few K apart without having to move at all. Ergo. Tac Versus SY had no real chance all. It was almost impossible to depress the opponents Mining enough for the Tac team to get much advantage.

[Valiance]

You mean you want emp to have a purpose? Don't be silly.

[dingusdangus]

QUOTE (spideycw @ Nov 5 2009, 07:55 AM) The majority of your peers wanted SY to be used more often in games though. While you disagree with it - it is something you will have to live with unless the majority of the community changes their mind on what they want SY to be.

Excellent commentary all keep it coming.

The more we have the more we can balance

I was one of the many who voted for making caps more viable, but I would like to officially retract my vote. I voted that way, because it seemed silly to have an entire tach path that was useless and the occasional game that SY showed up in was actually pretty fun. When caps start showing up in too many games though, it gets old really fast. Part of the problem is that the SY changes are new, so everyone want to try them out, and as a result caps have showed up in what seems like 50% of the games I have played in the last few days. exp and tac are also far too useless against caps and since caps seem to show up in every game, sup is pretty much your only option.

[RoboTel]

QUOTE (Adept @ Nov 5 2009, 09:55 AM) We could change EMP so that it does equal level dis damage to cap hull. At the moment taking an EMP along vs. caps is barely useful, or not at all.

It may well be that this would make EMP armed ints too tough vs. caps, but one could then limit the EMP to gun slot one, so an anti cap heavy int would have one EMP and two minis.

/edit TL:DR EMP should probably be made useful vs. caps.

I understand why people want to go this way with EMP, but I feel it is the wrong direction. There was a discussion before on how EMP could be used to damage light base shields if used with sufficient power, and I believe this combined with the ability to completely rape the shields of a cap ship seems like a valid and useful ability that is not overpowered (even if it is incredibly 'powerful'. It would give the weapons a more solid use, and maybe have them seen a bit more than they are right now. Exp SHOULD be the worst against cap ships, and this should only be a factor to help them a little bit.


Additionally, does anyone else think that killers genuinely aren't that great right now? I have seen tac hunt down cap ships with them, but only in combination with dis2 or 3 and fighters. Perhaps if their range was upped to 2000 then we would see more use for them. Tac would remain weak against defending against teh cap ships (already something they suck at) but would become better at hunting them down. An alert cap ship could still shoot down the missiles.


I agree that there should be some level of improvement for Tac and Exp against SY, but it should be pretty minor. Likewise Sup, should remain about the same in quality against them. Another interesting idea to balance the two out would be to make SY more reliant upon support, and in a way that is especially weak against Tac and Sup. Reduced sensor range is the solution on this side. Maybe increasing it for the already useless Freighter so they have some capacity, but decreasing it for the vast majority of cap ships, so that they cannot use the full capacity of their weapons without support.

[DasSmiter]

We're looking at different ways to make EMP useful, we'll let you know when what we come up with at the end.

Currently Tac is fine versus SY

3 Killer 1 cloak 2 sfs can get within about 1.2k of the corv safely and fire off missiles with no eye. It takes roughly 15 killer 1 total or about 5 volleys before the cap is dead. This can easily be accomplished without running out of energy.

Likewise if you see a cap coming you can drop EMP mines to completely rape it's shields and use killer to own its face off before it get's more than probably 3k

Exp probably won't ever be very good against caps though.

[Adept]

QUOTE (DasSmiter @ Nov 5 2009, 11:55 PM) We're looking at different ways to make EMP useful, we'll let you know when what we come up with at the end.

Currently Tac is fine versus SY

3 Killer 1 cloak 2 sfs can get within about 1.2k of the corv safely and fire off missiles with no eye. It takes roughly 15 killer 1 total or about 5 volleys before the cap is dead. This can easily be accomplished without running out of energy.

Vette is so agile though, that a competent pilot will dodge most of the killers, even when swarmed from many sides at once. Not sure if it's a problem, but it certainly is impressive to see.

[Valiance]

If 2k range was put in they would be even more likely to dodge. Killers are pretty fun to use imo because of how (relatively) close you have to get to use them. Leave killers.
I'm not sure if caps are now overpowered or if its just because everyone wants to try them, but I think sy should be left how it is for a bit longer before you start making serious headway into changes, to get some more solid feedback. I kinda gathered that this was the plan anyway, but maybe I felt like repeating loads of other people.

[RoboTel]

I felt that a 2k range wouldn't be overpowered because they are so easy to dodge. It is a benefit, but nothing crazy-large.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think any given idea I have is necessarily good, but I feel that SY is a bit too strong against Tac and Exp. I agree that we should wait before doing anything though, it has been too early to see how people will adapt.

[NightRychune]

Not sure what all was actually changed with corvettes, but flying one today, it felt like the oversteer that was intentionally added when they were first to make them harder to handle while preventing them from having sluggish handling like the rest of the caps is gone. I don't think corvettes being able to avoid killers is a problem, though. The pilot needs to be extremely alert in order to do it. When I was doing it today, I was flying very carefully and checking F3/sideview every few seconds to make sure I was aware of where every missile was coming from so I knew where to strafe/turn accordingly. They can also fire them without ever being eyed if they play properly due to the low mounting sick of killers, and they're still extraordinarily effective vs. larger, slower caps if the SFs take proper positioning.

[zombywoof]

Agility was upgraded. It's difficult to do but possible if they're fired at max range.