Topics of CC_06

[Naboki]

QUOTE (girlyboy @ Jun 3 2009, 12:51 AM) What evidence do you have that Rix are not balanced? On paper, they seem overpowered, but in practice, their ships and tech are hard to use properly, and they don't seem to win a disproportionate number of games. Not to mention that until faction win/loss stats are back up (which, it seems, might be a while) any discussions about factions needing overall nerfs will be based on guesswork and feelings (I mean, obviously some specific techs might still be argued to be unfair/"cheese," but arguing an entire faction is unbalanced is... kinda hard right now).

There's no specific evidence here that rix sbs are overpowered (though I think Adept's earlier idea about adding a station warning to the station pods is good), nor that rix tech cost is too low. Better get your Warnhammer, spidey!

Lets assume (i am astrophysican i can do that), there would be economical modifier k(yield, research costs, capacity, speed) which describes the economy performance of a faction
(low k poor, high k good)

Rix would have: 1k
dreg from 0.5265k
giga: 1.25k
belters: 0.48k
gt: 0.95k
tf: 2,5k
ic: 0.6375k
Bios: 2k

No big wonders in that table, nearly everyone expectet that. but now lets bring the research time into it
(low k poor, high k good)

Rix: 0,083333k
giga: 0,010416k
dreg: 0,008775k
tf: 0,008333k
ic: 0,0053125k
gt: 0,0079k
bios: 0,003333k
belters: 0,002

so as we can see is rix (if you just view the economical/research part), the best faction you can go, to balance that rix has low sig ships (cos there are no missiles), drones with a super aim, bases which are hard to cap. And i forgot The 0.9 Hull nerf for Rix, but who cares about that when you outtech the enemy anyway.

When i have time (currently very busy on observing the virgo cluster, for ram pressure stripping), i will recalculate it and expand that table for the other faction stats too.

[DasSmiter]

Rix on paper has a lot of strengths. In practice these strengths matter less than you'd think. I'll address tech costs and sb's in particular since you mentioned those.

Rix SBs are easy to neutralize. Any other ship in the game (regular SFs, figs, and scouts are better than ints but still) can take down the towers, while the reload time and drop time means you can't rely on a single sb to overcome defenses. Put that against a regular SB that can still deliver 2-4 missiles even if there are multiple scouts and fighters waiting for it (depending on where it comes in from). The biggest plus for the rix SB is that if you don't have scouts around your base it can drop 2 drones uneyed and run for the stars. But as we've said neutralizing those 2 drones is easy, and they're dead if they decide to stick around.

Rix tech costs are higher than everyone elses to compensate for their research time. Their miners are VERY vulnerable, with the hull nerf meaning that they need constant defense. Their miners aren't exceptionally fast or anything, and afaik they don't have a major perk to yield or mining speed. This makes it hard to pay for Rix tech if the enemy team is going for your miners.

I'm not sure exactly why you think Rix is imba, people mention the low sig ships. Well that's just because they don't mount missiles. If you unmount missiles on comparable ships from other factions you'll end up with similar sig. Please mention why you think a specific perk/nerf is imbalanced if you truly think Rix needs to be fixed.

[Xeretov]

Out of the original list, here's a list of topics that still need discussion for cc_06:

QUOTE (spideycw @ May 19 2009, 01:55 PM) Missile signatures: Reduce Seekers, Dumbfires and Quickfires signature wise? SY on flag: Remove for Figbees, Crs boost and Hvy boost?Hvy scout changes: Remove QL missiles?Belts Enh Ships: Tie the ability for Belters to keep their enh ships to their garr? Change/Remove TTs: Add EMP cannons to TTs and change EMP to better affect base shields? Remove TTs and make Bbrs required for HTT instead? Belts & TF weapons: Disallow Belts to use (not just mount) stolen TF PE weapons?

[Adept]

Things I'd like to see.

1) Fixing belters figbee hitpoints.

2) Taking a look at IC fig size/hitbox. Could still do with a small size reduction IMO.

3) Taking a look at Dreg int size/hitbox. Dreg int's are fun to fly, but they are a bit too easy to hit for their fragile hull.

[Valiance]

This should have it own topic but quickfires have the highest sig of fighter mounted missiles, despite the fact it has the smallest payload by far; WTF!
Quickfires really need a perk imo; though they are sometimes useful at things like getting them to chase briefly eyed ships and killing station drones, that is not useful enough

[Xeretov]

QUOTE (Adept @ Jun 29 2009, 07:11 AM) 1) Fixing belters figbee hitpoints.

2) Taking a look at IC fig size/hitbox. Could still do with a small size reduction IMO.

3) Taking a look at Dreg int size/hitbox. Dreg int's are fun to fly, but they are a bit too easy to hit for their fragile hull.

1) I think I can safely say we're fixing this in cc_06.

2) I've never had much of an issue with IC figs scale wise, they've at least got enough other perks going for them that it never seemed like a problem to me. GT figs could probably stand to get a touch smaller though.

3) I disagree. Dreg is the opposite of TF: They have really fast ints and bigger hitboxes. Dreg ints are already hard enough to hit when boost orbiting a miner, making them more vulnerable when they're at low speeds feels like a good trade-off. If anything I'd rather add a bit of space to their gunmounts but thats not really a pressing issue.

[Adept]

QUOTE (Xeretov @ Jun 29 2009, 11:19 PM) 3) I disagree. Dreg is the opposite of TF: They have really fast ints and bigger hitboxes. Dreg ints are already hard enough to hit when boost orbiting a miner, making them more vulnerable when they're at low speeds feels like a good trade-off. If anything I'd rather add a bit of space to their gunmounts but thats not really a pressing issue.

Of course it's not an either/or issue. It may be that both are called for.

I'd like the IC fig hitbox compared to other figs with clear pictures. I'm not savvy with the tools involved, so all I can do is take screencaps of figs next to other figs.

[Makida]

QUOTE (DasSmiter @ Jul 2 2009, 10:32 PM) "I wonder what the social ramifications of renaming SRM AB to SRM Nietzche will be?"

I fully support the creation of PhilosoCore.

[Adept]

SS3 to sup is a great change.

It could be worth considering moving SS2 so that you can buy it from either sup or tac, or at least need one of them. That way you could actually buy it without strengthening the enemy that has gone pure exp.

/edit

I also don't understand why TF has 1.0 hull instead of the standard 0.9. With their accross the board perks and especially the shield regen, they shouldn't have strongest hull as well.

[Compellor]

QUOTE (Adept @ Jul 4 2009, 12:01 PM) I also don't understand why TF has 1.0 hull instead of the standard 0.9 average 0.94. With their across the board perks and especially the shield regen, they shouldn't have strongest hull as well.

Strongest isn't quite correct also, but Belters almost don't count and the only other faction with >0.95 is GT, who need it.