Grand Scout Discussion

[l1ngus]

What is wrong with you? Why should we nerf hvy scouts by taking away QL-missiles and the turret?


Most of you say: 1) It is unlogical 2) hvy scouts have too much combat-power

1) You are rally arguing, that something in a space-combat-game is "unlogical"? Yes things are unlogical in sci-fi-computergames and this is part of the fun it is to play sci-fi-games.

2) 2 people in a hvy scout still have less damage-output (less defensive power and less minerkilling ability) than 2 people in any other endgame smallcraft (hvy ints, adv f/sfs)


Please consider, that...

... hvy scouts with their extras bring more disversification to gameplay

... turrets are a great possibility to make new players usefull and are a good chance for newer players to learn from the vet, that drives the vessel (shipchat for explaining; observing, how the vet proxes, avoids eye, finds enemy miners,htts,sbs, ....)

... hvy scouts with their extras are just great fun to fly

[Dorjan]

Why are people not considering this:

> make adv scout weaker and move it to garr

> make the hvy scout a better version of the adv scout (no turret or QL)

> add a new starbase craft that is called the Defender or something better that has a turret and prox and costs per one.
>> 500 per
>> pretty much the Hvy scout now but instead of uber scan range more hull

[CronoDroid]

QUOTE (l1ngus @ Dec 9 2008, 06:04 AM) Most of you say: 1) It is unlogical 2) hvy scouts have too much combat-power

1) You are rally arguing, that something in a space-combat-game is "unlogical"? Yes things are unlogical in sci-fi-computergames and this is part of the fun it is to play sci-fi-games.

2) 2 people in a hvy scout still have less damage-output (less defensive power and less minerkilling ability) than 2 people in any other endgame smallcraft (hvy ints, adv f/sfs)

Yeah they are undoubtably fun...but so were Vanguards. So were old Rix Hvy Scouts. Aiming for fun is all fine and good but serious games should be the main goal. Otherwise everyone would play 9/2.5 RPS games. In the context of CC they're fun in the wrong way. Fun should mean whore tech; you can buy it and use it but it doesn't contribute to winning the game or being that useful. Stuff like Gauss, Pulse Lasers, Zeus, Vanguards, Mustangs, etc. Those are fun to fly, but spend all game in them and soon you'll find the enemy SB'ing your @#(! and then losing.

Hvy Scouts are both fun (cheesy goodness) and incredibly versatile. They are game changing tech, not just whore tech. They make enemy runs at least twice as hard to pull off. A combination of large scan range and offensive firepower just goes over the top. While a turreted Hvy Scout isn't as good as two Hvy Ints in terms of pure firepower, they do have probably the largest firepower to scan range ratio in the game for a small ship. They can find things real easy and kill them too. They can also nan if need be, prox, probe, the usual scout stuff. BUT they have the whore power to match their utility power.

Hvy Ints, Adv SFs and Adv Figs don't have the scan range to be ultimate run stoppers. They're only good when the enemy has begun their attack. Hvy Scouts can find and more importantly kill the enemy while they setup. Plus the two people are in one ship...while this means they cover less ground it also means you concentrate the firepower where it's needed, rather than having your int escort wander off somewhere while you spot an SB. Plus, Hvy Scouts are fast. Other ships normally can't keep up with them for prolonged periods of time while they rove for enemies.

Plus you keep Hvy Scouts if you lose your Starbase...

1) It's not about "Sci-Fi" as a setting...it's about being internally consistent. Imagine new BSG. It's a sci-fi. It has robots. What would you say if suddenly Adama pulled out a beam katana and starting throwing lightning at people? This argument is fallacious because it says "It's okay for Sci-Fi to have crazy @#(! in it because it's Sci-Fi". Well, not really. You aim for internal consistency, which is logic. It's illogical for Lord of the Rings to suddenly have space battles because that isn't internally consistent.

In the context of Hvy Scouts, scouts are not meant to be offensive craft. They're support craft. Fighters are offensive. While I disagree with giving QLs to Figs, the fact that the scout gets it straight off the bat is illogical. They're not combat craft, why do they have an obviously offensive weapon? Same goes with the turret. When you look at the Hvy Scout it's logical to go "Well, the Adv Scout didn't get any offensive upgrades...why does the Hvy Scout suddenly have QL missiles and a turret?"

It's a remainder from DN which was made by a scout whore. Noir liked scouts, so he made the Hvy Scout powerful. Same with PookCore. You can use it to explain many balance reasoning. I hate Tac, love Rix, love Exp so I don't like it when people say stuff like "get rid of PPs for ints" or "Nerf Rix!" But since this is CC, there is no good reason to leave Hvy Scouts as uber as they are.

[raumvogel]

If you want to improve scouts,Make it easy to load "all prox" or "all probes" so I don't have to waste time panicking because no one would bother to get out and probe/miner sit.and while we are at it,please get the "default loadout" button away from the "confirm change" button.I,(who is the greatest scout whore this game has ever seen,and has a big fat ego to back it up),complained about this back in 1999.The response I got from the Zone Dudes was: "it's too far imbeded into the code".But it is nerve racking when you're miners are squealing in pain and agony because the enemy is filling their backs full of lead while I fumble about trying to load all prox after having been the only one to step up when the comm wants sectors probed,only to have it load to "default" because I missed the button by 1/8th of an inch.

/please read this post with Lewis Black\Sam Kinison\Andy Rooney in mind

//you may also post comments about what an idiot I am for not slowing down when preparing to click on the "confirm change" button although I'm panicking because I TRULY care about the health and well being of miners

///the world needs more hotties

[Psychosis]

I stand with the majority on these issues

[Dorjan]

QUOTE (Dorjan @ Dec 9 2008, 02:35 PM) Why are people not considering this:

> make adv scout weaker and move it to garr

> make the hvy scout a better version of the adv scout (no turret or QL)

> add a new starbase craft that is called the Defender or something better that has a turret and prox and costs per one.
>> 500 per
>> pretty much the Hvy scout now but instead of uber scan range more hull

[redavian]

Heres a compromise, someone might have said it, but the posts on the second page were to long and i couldnt be bothered:

how about making it so you need a techbasefor advscouts OR starbase.


Also, dont remove Ql missiles, just weaken them a little bit (like 0.75 damage per missile)