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Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:44 pm
by spideycw
Why should I stop bitching because you were so stupid you let 2 figs kill my op con?
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:56 pm
by takingarms1
MrChaos wrote:QUOTE (MrChaos @ May 27 2008, 11:43 PM) Good then we agree in principle, commanders are doing a bad thing by booting for this kind of stuff, but we'll have to disagree over the amount of times this happens.
It seemed to me that there were people advocating booting as a teaching tool.
<snip>A story:<snip>
Apples and oranges Mr.C. Spidey told you to launch in a nan and you failed to do so. That's not booting as a teaching tool that's booting because you didn't follow a direct order.
It was probably annoying for you and you were probably pissed at spidey but he did give you a direct order and you did fail to follow it. Am I also correct in assuming that you joined the other team and started whoring his miners as payback? Payback is a bitch, I've heard.
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 2:09 pm
by quackdamnyou
spideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ May 28 2008, 06:44 AM) Why should I stop bitching because you were so stupid you let 2 figs kill my op con?
Um, because you could have won that if you hadn't demoralized the team?
Besides which, it wasn't so simple as that. You launched against a stack, and I joined a minute in. Belts op and GT op both go midhigh. Belts brought more figs to the party. @#(! happens. We hear about it for ten minutes. Meanwhile they have a tac and a few pilots who know how to use it. You are not new at this, you know how much defense it takes to protect four miners from util2 sfs. So our miners died. You reacted when they died, instead of being proactive and pointing out that some of them were alone. So finally I mutinied, knowing that either way I wouldn't have to listen to you any more.
Meanwhile mcwarren was doing the commander's job, motivating and coordinating his team.
I know you have a different style from me. You are fun to win with, and a pain in the ass to lose with. I should just accept it.
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 2:56 pm
by spideycw
quackdamnyou wrote:QUOTE (quackdamnyou @ May 28 2008, 10:09 AM) Um, because you could have won that if you hadn't demoralized the team?
Besides which, it wasn't so simple as that. You launched against a stack, and I joined a minute in. Belts op and GT op both go midhigh. Belts brought more figs to the party. @#(! happens. We hear about it for ten minutes. Meanwhile they have a tac and a few pilots who know how to use it. You are not new at this, you know how much defense it takes to protect four miners from util2 sfs. So our miners died. You reacted when they died, instead of being proactive and pointing out that some of them were alone. So finally I mutinied, knowing that either way I wouldn't have to listen to you any more.
Meanwhile mcwarren was doing the commander's job, motivating and coordinating his team.
I know you have a different style from me. You are fun to win with, and a pain in the ass to lose with. I should just accept it.
You sure have a lot more to learn about commanding. Maybe I will construct an @ACS II course just for you.
"We are fine - we have our expansion and 4 miners!"
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:26 am
by MrChaos
TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ May 28 2008, 08:56 AM) Apples and oranges Mr.C. Spidey told you to launch in a nan and you failed to do so. That's not booting as a teaching tool that's booting because you didn't follow a direct order.
It was probably annoying for you and you were probably pissed at spidey but he did give you a direct order and you did fail to follow it. Am I also correct in assuming that you joined the other team and started whoring his miners as payback? Payback is a bitch, I've heard.
Just give me a break about the "direct order" bit.
He got pissed cause he lost a miner, blamed, berated, and then booted me.
It had little to do with anything else.
I in turn crabbed at him from NOAT which did nothing but make things worse and not a good way to handle things on my part.
And no I didn't try to make him pay.
Sincerely wtf does flying for the other commander to make him lose have to do with anything.
Please understand Taking that to you a booting is a slap on the wrist but to many it's a slap in the face. Case in point is the never ending string of angry threads on being booted.
Yes yes everyone gets over it or leaves including yours truely but I'll repeat it again:
If commanders start booting people for not doing their every whim, and bitch at them too, you'll be playing Allegiance with a much smaller crowd.
I get why the idea is being floated but the cure is worse then the diease.
MrChaos
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:59 am
by takingarms1
MrChaos wrote:QUOTE (MrChaos @ May 29 2008, 01:26 AM) And no I didn't try to make him pay.
Sincerely wtf does flying for the other commander to make him lose have to do with anything.
Because it feels so damn good /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
QUOTE (MrChaos)Please understand Taking that to you a booting is a slap on the wrist but to many it's a slap in the face. Case in point is the never ending string of angry threads on being booted.[/quote]
I guess it's a matter of perspective, but my point is that it's quite simple to get back in the game, so it's not as if getting booted prevents you from playing. As far as the never ending threads, think of the usual type of person who makes those threads. 9 times out of 10 they are really annoying types.
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:12 pm
by Adept
TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ May 29 2008, 02:59 PM) Because it feels so damn good /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
I guess it's a matter of perspective, but my point is that it's quite simple to get back in the game, so it's not as if getting booted prevents you from playing. As far as the never ending threads, think of the usual type of person who makes those threads. 9 times out of 10 they are really annoying types.
I'm sorry TA, but the above isn't really thought out.
It's the new(ish) pilots who are most likely to get booted by your logic. Those are pilots who aren't used to it, and who most probably don't have hiders. That means they
can't get back in the game, and quite likely will not even know why they got booted.
All too often a boot is basically a tantrum and an ego trip for the commander.
/edit but not alway of course. I've gotten booted maybe 4 times all in all. 1 was a misunderstanding we settled later for the benefit of both, 1 I disagree with but the other two were good calls from the commander. One time I was responding to a PM and headed to the middle aleph on inside-out, and the other one I can't remember anymore, but some similar lapse of attention.
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:51 pm
by takingarms1
Adept wrote:QUOTE (Adept @ May 29 2008, 08:12 AM) All too often a boot is basically a tantrum and an ego trip for the commander.
I disagree again. Based on my experience, most of the time the boot is due to the idiocy or asshattiness of the person being booted. I can count the number of games I've been booted from a game on one hand, despite me making some very big mistakes in my history. I deserved every boot I got. I can't recall a single boot rant posted on this forum in which the boot wasn't fully deserved by the bootee (doesn't mean there weren't any, just that the overwhelming majority were well deserved).
Adept wrote:QUOTE (Adept @ May 29 2008, 08:12 AM) /edit but not alway of course. I've gotten booted maybe 4 times all in all. 1 was a misunderstanding we settled later for the benefit of both, 1 I disagree with but the other two were good calls from the commander.
So by your own admission 50% of your own boots were well deserved, and at least one other was questionable. It's also notable that in all the time you've been playing you've only been booted 4 times. I assume you've made a few more than 4 mistakes in your time here? So it seems that all too often your mistakes go completely unnoticed or unpunished by the commander.
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:07 pm
by Adept
[to TakingArms]
Mistakes that I would boot somebody for? ... I don't think so. *thinking*
When somebody is being an ***hole, or so stupid that it's really hurting his/her team, then it's time to warn, then boot. Making lesser mistakes or just not being very good is not a good reason to boot, I should say.
But this is just my opinion. I think booting is very harsh, especially if it comes as a surprise. You consider it to be a minor slap on the wrist. I'm not sure we can come to agree on this. I just hope bootings stay at the relatively low frequency I see at the moment.
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:09 pm
by quackdamnyou
spideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ May 28 2008, 07:56 AM) You sure have a lot more to learn about commanding. Maybe I will construct an @ACS II course just for you.
"We are fine - we have our expansion and 4 miners!"
Commanding is an art. One is never 'done' learning an art. One merely refines it into new and fascinating incarnations.
And yes, that is exactly what I said. Maybe you win games by telling your team that they might as well give up. But you sure didn't win that one.