The EXP problem

apochboi · Post by **apochboi** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:27 pm

Paradigm2 wrote:QUOTE (Paradigm2 @ May 5 2008, 05:43 PM) I've said it over and over again... make ints ineffective outside of a controlled sector. Make them dependent on your outposts and bases.

Limiting scan range and fuel capacity I think would make a huge difference.

It is really discouraging to see that an entire team of light ints can see a con almost in a sector (two away from their home), boost there and get there in time to kill it, and have enough fuel to get home.

Edit: And making those two simple nerfs will not limit the roles of ints as defensive ships. They will still be able to defend cons and miners, even far from their home (as their top speeds are not that low), and they will still keep the same amount of ammo.

The only thing it really stops are the ridiculous notion (which I use to my advantage all the time) that a single heavy int can boost across multiple sectors, eye a miner on its own, boost around in circles while killing the miner, and boost away. Its just stupid.

I glad you posted this. It's is actually something I wanted to add into the CC but i wanted to start small say a 10% reduction in fuel and scan range. I believe even a small nerf would be fine, then if they are still uber, we can nerf it 20% untill we get to the point that ints need scouts, and ints shouldnt be able to boost miles off a map and then return to defend a base.

takingarms1 · Post by **takingarms1** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:49 pm

Frankly, I think if you take fuel and scan range away from ints you're going to make the game less fun.

That is why I recommend revamping sup costs. If you made it more economical, sup would still have a good chance against exp.

Making carriers cheaper would go a long way toward achieving this. Imagine having an expendible carrier that you can push into their mining sector and not really care about losing it. Also imagine building 2 or 3 carriers initially and keeping one with your miners and one with your cons. Figs everywhere ftw!

CronoDroid · Post by **CronoDroid** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:58 pm

Um, everyone notices Lxy Int's lack of fuel. Every int pilot I've ever flown with anyway. Personally I know I greatly conserve fuel when driving a Lxy because you simply don't have enough to catch miners/cons/enemies, boost circles around the miner and escape quickly in a hot sector due to the Lxy's lack of fuel. Sure you could rip but that's not as useful as being able to boost away from the enemy at 200+mps.

If you make all ints have the same fuel as the Lxy, I'm certain people will use it more conservatively.

Evincar · Post by **Evincar** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:21 pm

i agree with crono. i also agree with the fact that most regular voobs won't notice it, that it doesn't really hinders them from fullfilling any short range role, that it doesn't forbids them to kill miners or boost in circles or any other common piloting maneuver, but it does help to lower the almighty reaction range of 3+ sectors to 2+, at least.

a good thing to start experimenting with. i think the damages and hulls are fine, just that they shouldn't be allowed such mobility

Drizzo · Post by **Drizzo** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:23 pm

Please force ints to work with scouts! Do you know how hard it is to get a combat nan in a pick up game?

Dark_Sponge · Post by **Dark_Sponge** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:36 pm

Paradigm2 wrote:QUOTE (Paradigm2 @ May 5 2008, 09:43 AM) Limiting scan range and fuel capacity I think would make a huge difference.

Fuel capacity wouldn't need to be changed if scan range was drastically reduced. Make them blind. A scan range of 100 should be enough for a defensive craft. If ints needed scouts as spotters defenders could protect their miners and constructors by killing the spotter scouts and keeping their sectors deprobed. I think ints should be able to boost like crazy so they can properly defend their own sectors.

madpeople · Post by **madpeople** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:40 pm

i've been saying reduce int scan range to 100 for years..

CronoDroid wrote:QUOTE (CronoDroid @ May 5 2008, 09:58 PM) Um, everyone notices Lxy Int's lack of fuel. Every int pilot I've ever flown with anyway. Personally I know I greatly conserve fuel when driving a Lxy because you simply don't have enough to catch miners/cons/enemies, boost circles around the miner and escape quickly in a hot sector due to the Lxy's lack of fuel. Sure you could rip but that's not as useful as being able to boost away from the enemy at 200+mps.

If you make all ints have the same fuel as the Lxy, I'm certain people will use it more conservatively.

i guess it's because i tend to fly ints like figs and only boost when i need to, and instead work out where i need to be before it's too late and must boost there to get there in time, but i only noticed lxys had less fuel a few weeks ago and had to go check ICE to make sure what i was seeing in game was right i was so surprised to see it as i've been here for years (and i only noticed it in the loadout screen, not in flight).

it probably is because i've prefer to fly figs that i naturally only use the fuel when i need it in an int, and as such i only run out of it if i've been doing a lot of fighting for an extended time without coming back to base.

i wonder if that could explain why some people suck with figs, they use all their fuel boosting across sectors to get somewhere when they should have set off 30 or 60 sec earlier and flown with the figs higher top speed to where they need to be so they can use their fuel for the fight where they need it, instead of turning up to the fight having already used half their resources they need to use to win the fight...

...i'm getting more attracted to halving all int's fuel, it might make people better fig pilots /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
(if all fuels do get halved, lxy's can stay the same as it is now)

edit, now i think about it, i do think about how much fuel i have less when flying an int than when flying a fig

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:40 pm

Make ints more dependent on light booster for traveling and you have problem solved.

There for reduce their fuel. Problem solved!

Also it makes light booster useful for the exp path

Kap · Post by **Kap** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:07 pm

I don't like the sound of having a 400m gun and only a 100m scan range. But then again avg sig is like 150+ for most other crafts...

Clay_Pigeon · Post by **Clay_Pigeon** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:13 pm

*pile on*

There is a lot of things with EoR ints that are seriously out of whack, but the core has been around enough that we have some practical data on a few changes.

Setting the scan range to 100 is a splendid idea. It forces ints to bring a scout with them, which itself reduces the ints' power over long distances: it doesn't do them much good to boost faster than the scout can travel.

They also set the base sig to 100 (also on GoD), which I believe also makes a lot of sense.

EoR also played with giving each techpath its own kind of booster. I don't think the result worked out that well, though it might have just needed tweaking. Figs ended up having something like a light booster, with 30+ seconds of fuel on a top speed in the high 200s (memory is incorrect). Ints had something like the standard booster, but the int also had scads of acceleration. It worked out to <20 secs of fuel, but enough accel that most of that time was spent near its top speed of 400+ mps. In the end, I didn't like it very much. An int could always run down 3 figs and gank them.

A modest fuel nerf may also be wise, but the scan and fuel nerfs interact, so its important to not overdo it.