About the restructuring

Cadillac · Post by **Cadillac** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:08 am

I'll stick with Emperor Pookative and Darth Viper /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Barrager · Post by **Barrager** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:39 am

I'll be frank, Ozzy was the most active guy in the Senate. Bored and Ang loved putting in there 2 cents about topics, and I sat in my chair and Mainly voiced words of caution. There were some issues where I even had a strong opposite opinions in the matters at hands, and I tried to make myself clear. The Senates biggest project was running the rules down in the constitution, and now with the Senate Void and Moot discussion of such enforcements have been halted and brought forth the the final say of Black Viper.

So let's see if I can get to me point. The Senate for the Most part had a purpose but it was given so much power and responsibility that it became dead weight. most of us have a minimum to modest understanding of game development, most of us had little to no idea what was going on in the Education Department. We were put in charge of things that we didn't invest time, becuase it wasn't part of our job descriptions. we Were put there because we had a sound mind.

I was at the TS meeting and I witnessed for as long as I could spare time the verbal recollection of how this new system would work. the @allegs are pretty much hired help. the Eyes of the Administrative section of this game. BV is in charge of Enforcement. Frankly At the time was at a loss for words. I heard the new proposal to be implemented and felt it was Rash to completely abolish the Senate. This System is a good one, it will bring changes fast to the community, will bring in a new crowd as well. My biggest issue is the Checks and Balance

The Senates one REAL contribution to the game in recent events was forming, debating and wording the "constitution" of this game. I honestly felt that this was the one good purpose to the Senate. My opinion on the matter is not to completely Abolish the Senate. I agree whole heartedly in taking away it's position to have everyone answer to it. The Senate should serve one purpose. To discuss controversial laws, and acts of breaking laws.

Consider, BV's position, when it comes down to it he has the final Say is most every matter. there are only 3 people who can overrule his say and though they are of sound mind, I feel that The Senate would be a nice addition to the Enforcement zone. they would act as a sort of Supreme court. they Will debate the issues. and hammer out the guidelines. I honestly felt that was the one thing the Senate did well. The Constitution was constantly debated, and it is a good check system for anyone in Charge of whether someone is allowed in this community or not.

perhaps it should not longer be called the Senate but rather the Court with it;s Judges

batman · Post by **batman** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:08 am

I guess time will tell on the new arrangement. Hey, let's face it -- it is the folks doing the work here that are the real movers and shakers in the community.

I guess nothing stops me from being a mover and a shaker except a lack of programming knowledge and a lack of time. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

One thought about the recently mooted Senate -- was it not useful in the 'enforcement' area? I know admins can issue the bans and deal with the mundane day to day enforcement issues.

On the bigger issues (like perma-bans) would it not be wise to retain the Senate to review the actions of the admins to keep the process transparent? Just thinking about whether BV wants or needs cover is all.

CronoDroid · Post by **CronoDroid** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:20 am

Anything to cut red tape is fine by me. If it means faster development, better organised events AND a rants forum, it's pretty sweet.

DOWN WITH BUREACRACY! But now the poor Senators can't look up nicks anymore...

Stain_Rat · Post by **Stain_Rat** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:34 am

I really hate it when the forum layout changes. It's the equivalent of WifeBot2000's "oh, I think the glasses should go where the plates are currently.... hmmm..... and the Tupperware really does fit better in this drawer." I'm liable to start handling it the same way too (i.e. spend 20 seconds looking for the forum category I want- give up in disgust- call Thalgor on his cell phone asking where it is).

You've been warned.

madpeople · Post by **madpeople** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:18 am

BlackViper wrote:QUOTE (BlackViper @ Apr 23 2007, 01:03 AM) One last edit... Some where someone made a comment today about if people care about an issue, they will be active in the forum that covers it. Which is so true!

madpeople wrote:QUOTE (madpeople @ Apr 22 2007, 11:37 PM) also, the ZL can just make a post in their zone, people who are active and actually read that zone can respond, but people who know nothing about say art dev and never read the art forum wont reply because they don't see it where as a asgs poll would ask them things they don't know about.

/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Barrager wrote:QUOTE (Barrager @ Apr 23 2007, 02:39 AM) My opinion on the matter is not to completely Abolish the Senate. I agree whole heartedly in taking away it's position to have everyone answer to it. The Senate should serve one purpose. To discuss controversial laws, and acts of breaking laws.

Consider, BV's position, when it comes down to it he has the final Say is most every matter. there are only 3 people who can overrule his say and though they are of sound mind, I feel that The Senate would be a nice addition to the Enforcement zone. they would act as a sort of Supreme court. they Will debate the issues. and hammer out the guidelines. I honestly felt that was the one thing the Senate did well. The Constitution was constantly debated, and it is a good check system for anyone in Charge of whether someone is allowed in this community or not.

perhaps it should not longer be called the Senate but rather the Court with it;s Judges

i agree with this [sort of], it was one of my thoughts

though it would need to be done in a way that it doesn't get in the way of BV and the enforcement dpt - senate got removed for being in-efficient

but then if it doesn't effect the enforcement dpt, then wtf does it do?
sure they could vote on ban lengths, but ban length is done by asgs automatically.
they could vote on perma bans, but if they don't want to perma ban someone and bv does... they get perma banned as he has final say, unless he wasn't too sure.
the senate could act as a committee to discuss things in the enforcement (+admin?) dpt(s), but the enforcement dpt has the @allegs for that.

i just don't see where and how they would fit in

ShadowFox_ · Post by **ShadowFox_** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:42 pm

_SRM_PsycHosis wrote:QUOTE (_SRM_PsycHosis @ Apr 22 2007, 04:08 PM)

/mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />

Amen!

ShadowFox_ · Post by **ShadowFox_** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:45 pm

Barrager wrote:QUOTE (Barrager @ Apr 22 2007, 06:39 PM) I'll be frank, Ozzy was the most active guy in the Senate. Bored and Ang loved putting in there 2 cents about topics, and I sat in my chair and Mainly voiced words of caution. There were some issues where I even had a strong opposite opinions in the matters at hands, and I tried to make myself clear. The Senates biggest project was running the rules down in the constitution, and now with the Senate Void and Moot discussion of such enforcements have been halted and brought forth the the final say of Black Viper.

So let's see if I can get to me point. The Senate for the Most part had a purpose but it was given so much power and responsibility that it became dead weight. most of us have a minimum to modest understanding of game development, most of us had little to no idea what was going on in the Education Department. We were put in charge of things that we didn't invest time, becuase it wasn't part of our job descriptions. we Were put there because we had a sound mind.

I was at the TS meeting and I witnessed for as long as I could spare time the verbal recollection of how this new system would work. the @allegs are pretty much hired help. the Eyes of the Administrative section of this game. BV is in charge of Enforcement. Frankly At the time was at a loss for words. I heard the new proposal to be implemented and felt it was Rash to completely abolish the Senate. This System is a good one, it will bring changes fast to the community, will bring in a new crowd as well. My biggest issue is the Checks and Balance

The Senates one REAL contribution to the game in recent events was forming, debating and wording the "constitution" of this game. I honestly felt that this was the one good purpose to the Senate. My opinion on the matter is not to completely Abolish the Senate. I agree whole heartedly in taking away it's position to have everyone answer to it. The Senate should serve one purpose. To discuss controversial laws, and acts of breaking laws.

Consider, BV's position, when it comes down to it he has the final Say is most every matter. there are only 3 people who can overrule his say and though they are of sound mind, I feel that The Senate would be a nice addition to the Enforcement zone. they would act as a sort of Supreme court. they Will debate the issues. and hammer out the guidelines. I honestly felt that was the one thing the Senate did well. The Constitution was constantly debated, and it is a good check system for anyone in Charge of whether someone is allowed in this community or not.

perhaps it should not longer be called the Senate but rather the Court with it;s Judges

yeh

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:17 pm

Judge Advocates General

@JAG

/mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />

Semarin · Post by **Semarin** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:02 pm

I'm hesitant about the new system.

1. Most of the people who will be answering these ASGS polls will be *decidedly* un-informed about just about anything that is going to be asked of them. I would have little trust in any results from an ASGS polls as a result of that. Face it, the vast majority of people who will be answering these polls don't understand the game well, much less visit the forums to be informed. Which seems like it would skew the results significantly.

2. Also, how many people see these poll results? The public should see the results of any of these ASGS polls.

3. Lastly, I am not a big fan of giving a select few people nearly total control and almost no supervision (checks and balances).

4. P.S. If you guys really thought this new system of "ASGS polls = giving the power to the people" then why didn't you use the system to see what the people thought of the idea first? Why no poll about abolishing the Senate?]

I would appreciate a serious response to my points/questions from a few of the power's that be.