Spidey's Command List

Post by **TheBored** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:46 pm

I'm somewhat embarrassed that I actually defended JG for a while (not about his reasoning but about his troll status). This thread needs to be locked because he is using it to +1 all over the place. He's even resorted to outright lies, a very good reason to just end this whole topic.

Aarm, BV, TE, whoever else has teh powah here... end this.

(I have no idea why you would ever want to argue with a statistician anyway)

TB

EDIT: I don't normally agree with this, but it applies here. This thread:

Ksero · Post by **Ksero** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:12 am

Jgbaxter, so one of the main things you're concerned about is "How many noobs is an Aarmstrong worth?". Doesn't this issue also apply to time-based ranks (eg. alleg-age)?

Let's say that we do base our ranks on the number of hours played. Is a player that has played 100 hours really a hundred times better than someone who has played one hour? That given two equal commanders a team of 100 1-hour old newbies could take on a team of one pilot with 100 flight hours?

How about taking the square root of hours played instead (like the alleg-age does, iirc), so it doesn't grow so fast. Or maybe it should be the cube root? Or logarithmic? We could argue at length about the merits of different functions and how well they model learning. However, ranks are not meant to be medals of honor, or a reward for having played 100 hours or podding more than five pilots per game on average. Ranks are a statistical tool to make it easier to have even games.

If you want to use ranks for balancing purposes, why not use a statistical system that has been designed to gradually learn how many noobs an Aarmstrong is worth? If you don't want to use ranks for balancing purposes, then feel free to advocate any more or less meaningless replacement.

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:13 am

jgbaxter wrote:QUOTE (jgbaxter @ Dec 13 2007, 11:36 PM) Let's say we have;

Aarm
spidey
Weed
noob(0)
noob(0)

I think that team will beat;

Lyk
Shiz
Terra
Baker
Factoid

9 times out of 10.

This is what I mean by you randomly making up numbers. It could be true, it may not be true (personally I am much more inclined with the latter).

Such a situation has not ever occured with the outcome being as you predicted, however similar situations have occured but also with the outcome being vastly different, its called stacking and 9 times out of 10 the stack wins.

The only way something like that would work is if say one of the noob(0)'s was replaced by say Deathinabox(0) and then in that case yes top team would win. What you are not proving at all is AllegAge would work as AllegAge would be the one keeping Deathinabox from being around the vet levels and around the newbie stage.

Also really what is your point? It doesn't make any sense at all and you just posting random crappy excuses of not explaining your reasoning simply give the idea that you have no idea what you are talking about or that instead of just conceding the point that mabye you were wrong and they were right (whoever they are) that you just simply want to pretend that you are bored/annoyed/offended by the discussion and wish to take no further part (bwak bwak bwak bwak /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> )

What I would like to see you do it just give some reasoning towards your argunemts. Perhaps I am being idiotic and not realising fully how you would like to have AllegAge implemented and to keep the discussion going becuase I am bored and have an essay to write and my procrastination demands to be fed somehow.

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:55 am

Baker, I don't say that your effort is worthless or that AllegSkill will be worse then what we have, if you read every word you'd see that in several cases I say that it is a good effort and that I think that more then likely AllegSKill will in fact be better then Helo. You're taking it all too personally. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

=-=

Mr. Kltplzyxm wrote:QUOTE (Mr. Kltplzyxm @ Dec 13 2007, 04:43 PM) LOL. Thanks for joining my ignore list Bax. Life has gotten a lot less annoying. /mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />

I'm glad you'll know you're the only one on it.

I care why? /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roll:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

I had no clue who you were before, I'm sure my life is over now. /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

=-=

TB: Bite shiny metal butt. Oh, please show my lies, I need a laugh and I haven't seen you fly today.

=-=

Ksero, you're missing my point, as I said before I don't think AllegAge is best as the primary means of rating, but rather a rating system should look at the effect experience has.

=-=

HSharp it's a freaking rough example.

one person of rating 15 and one person of rating 5, do not equate to one person of rating 20.

Aarm has on occasion commed games with a couple vets and the rest newbies against a vet team, and won, he's also lost but statistically that game should almost never ever be won by Aarm. This is another rough example, of course these games have actually happened... couldn't say how many Aarm has won like that, I've been on his team twice when he has though and I'm sure he hasn't done those type of games 1000's of times required to make it statistically reasonable that he's won games like that more then once.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:20 am

Contrary to popular belief, aarmstrong is not magical nor does he grant wishes.

he just happens to have a pot of gold.

Post by **TheBored** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:01 am

jgbaxter wrote:QUOTE (jgbaxter @ Dec 13 2007, 08:55 PM) TB: Bite shiny metal butt. Oh, please show my lies, I need a laugh and I haven't seen you fly today.

Is that some pitiful attempt to dis my flying skills? /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Your lie:

jgbaxter wrote:QUOTE (jgbaxter @ Dec 13 2007, 06:11 PM) And Terra, I've worked with statistics for over 10 years, so, whatever.

Cmon, everyone sees right through it.

TB

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:07 am

/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Yea I was just ragging on ya, then again you were being mean.

Ok, whatever you believe is what you believe. I didn't say I was a statistician mind you. I have worked with demographic statistics among other things for over 10 years. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

Picobozo · Post by **Picobozo** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:07 am

Technical Wonder wrote:QUOTE (Technical Wonder @ Dec 13 2007, 08:20 PM) Contrary to popular belief, aarmstrong is not magical nor does he grant wishes.

he just happens to have a pot of gold.

Aarmstrong doesn't know where you live. But he knows where you will die!

Evincar · Post by **Evincar** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:12 am

jgb, what you just said is pure bull@#(! and that's exactly why you are not making any sense.

an accurate system would in fact point out how many aarmstrongs is worth kIll3rHunt3r_XX(x).

in the case it wouldn't, then you are proposing a system which is not worth a dime, because it fails to accomplish the goal (who is to judge if not the system who is better than who?)

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:18 am

Actually it wouldn't point the the Aarm strong example at all, as a matter of fact after reading up on TrueSkill that seems to be a major point of contention many people are having with that system. What you fail to realize and which I have attempted to illustrate is that one person of enough skill can easily outweigh the advantage of superior numbers... have you not ever seen 3 vets try to pod Weed in a single engagement?

I have not proposed any system, I have simply said what such a system should take into account in order to be more accurate.