Call to arms AKA what needs to be done.

[Wasp]

QUOTE (Senor NoirSol @ Jul 29 2017, 02:05 PM) He was working on something similar two years ago, port dx7 forward would be a continuation of that.
Stop being so defensive.
AGAIN I WANT YOU TO WORK ALONGSIDE HIM ON THIS DX7 ISSUE.

Seriously, relax.

What he did years ago is not the same and porting Dx7 forward would not be a continuation of that.

I'm not being defensive...dunno where you got that.

I'd be happy to work along side anyone porting Dx7 forward. But, that isn't happening. When it is, I'll donate whatever is necessary.

[aem]

I'd think one of the very significant issues with Allegiance is that DirectPlay has to be manually enabled in Windows 8 & 10. Sounds like a script to install via DISM in the installer might be a possibility to get this done automatically, but I am not very familiar with DISM so would have to test it out. At worst the installer should guide through the enabling of DirectPlay. Going to lose a large percentage of potential players who download the game but can't even join a game.

[pkk]

Code: Select all

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.15063]
(c) 2017 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>dism /online /Enable-Feature /FeatureName:DirectPlay /All

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.15063.0

Image Version: 10.0.15063.0

Enabling feature(s)
[==========================100.0%==========================]
The operation completed successfully.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh824822.aspx

[KGJV]

QUOTE (Senor NoirSol @ Jul 29 2017, 05:43 PM) https://github.com/FreeAllegiance/Allegiance <----- This is our ONLY OFFICIAL CODEBASE

@KJGV please backport your code and issue list into the above repo^

As stated already my code is a fork toward a single player game (but with a game server and later on multiplayer features).

I've already trashed and changed too many things to go back. I've dropped everything AGC, OLE/COM and registry related. In fact my plan is to have the server and the client to run on Linux too (and yeah that means getting ride of DirectPlay and Direct3D).
It's a mid term project not compatible with your short term plan to reboot Alleg on Steam. I might eventually end up on Steam too but it will be a completely different game (don't expect anything on that front before mid 2018).

I will keep my changes open for now, here: https://github.com/kgersen/Allegiance/tree/kgwork (notice: it's in a special branch 'kgwork' so the master branch is still in sync with your FreeAllegiance/Allegiance).
You're free to "cherry pick" changes from this branch , I think it's the easiest way to proceed for the time been.

I need to take a more days if not weeks to think more in details about how we can eventually cooperate, I care about an Alleg reboot on Steam but I already see too many sudden excitements and hasty decisions here. May be our projects can merge back together later on, in a few months, but it's too early.

I don't work like this, there is no real rush here. The new licence/steam stuff doesn't miraculously solve old problems, it doesn't change much in fact, except that most people loudly voicing their opinion aren't 'doers' so they won't contribute anymore now than before...on the manpower front nothing has changed yet. May be start advertising for devs on Steam and whatnot.

I really think everyone need to clam down, take a deep breath or in a few weeks that whole excitement will be gone and we will be back to where we were (I hope not but I'm afraid we will).

[beeman]

QUOTE (Wasp @ Jul 29 2017, 12:48 PM) Imago plays on Sunday's, sometimes.

Long term should be "Allegiance2" imo. The game concept is the real asset here.

Now that you can "sell", you can make it "sell-able" by grabbing the concept and putting it into new code that is worthy to purchase.

For now, put a good working version of the game out there with tolerable graphics and defaults,...then begin the groundwork to do a complete re-write as the devs have discussed many times already.

I hope we're not considering selling the game. Really?! This game just got resuscitated, but even a successful Steam roll-out doesn't mean people will flock to it. I believe selling the game would be bad for the game, against everything "FREE"Allegiance stands for, and sort of a slap in the face to Microsoft and Rick Rashid who was nice enough to release it "no strings attached" but on a verbal understanding that were weren't going to try to make a buck off of it.

I think think the intention of the community with respect to this point should be made clear. Sure, if we get 100,000 players join in the first month, everyone should buck-up for the cost of new/upgraded servers. But if someone is going to be making bank off of this game, I consider it ethically wrong.
I do not think this is something that needs to be "worked on". It needs to be DECIDED.

What says the community?

[Wasp]

The community's decision may be irrelevant. The license allows for it, anyone can take the code and do it.

There is no way you could ethically charge someone for this as it sits now, however, a complete re-write would certainly justify bucking up.

As I said before, the concept is the asset here. If this game can be sold as a NEW release of a Microsoft product, someone is guaranteed to make some cash.

[aem]

I doubt anyone is thinking about making money on this Allegiance. At best there could be some kind of cosmetic upgrade (skins) sold and that wouldn't even cover hosting expenses. I really wouldn't feel bad about rewriting an Allegiance 2 and selling it, although I don't see that ever happening as it could have been done already (as a clone that had entirely new names, factions, etc).

To put this in perspective I would expect maybe 10-15 downloads from new players per week from just being on Steam. During the month this news hits social media, game sites, etc perhaps a total of 1,000 downloads max or a little higher if very lucky. If anything close to it's current state the majority of those downloads will not even result in playing an online game (either due to problems or logging in during off peak hours and seeing hardly anyone playing).

At peak hours after the news hits we may break 100, maybe even closer to 150, online on weekends. But many of these players won't stick around, even if we put forth our best efforts. A month or two later the hope is we might come out of this basically having turned back the clock like 5 years and doubling the number of active players. That certainly will help a lot, but it will still be a small number of players active in Allegiance.

To help we will want to dump a decent amount of money into advertising right as the news hits to further boost the number of new players coming in. If the game looks dead players won't even bother trying it out. So we need to bring in a ton of new players at the same time to revive the game.

[beeman]

QUOTE (Wasp @ Jul 29 2017, 02:35 PM) The community's decision may be irrelevant. The license allows for it, anyone can take the code and do it.

There is no way you could ethically charge someone for this as it sits now, however, a complete re-write would certainly justify bucking up.

As I said before, the concept is the asset here. If this game can be sold as a NEW release of a Microsoft product, someone is guaranteed to make some cash.

I agree that anyone can go rogue and push the code and try to make money. But I also believe doing so would be a mistake because others could push their own versions (for less money or free) and the game doesn't have enough followers to survive a schism like that. It would be the end.

I totally disagree that, "If this game can be sold as a NEW release of a Microsoft product, someone is guaranteed to make some cash." I sat on Teamspeak last night with Weed, Psychosis, Blake and others and just listened to the fun they has talking about what made Allegiance great. I was having a ball just listening.

Wasp, your thinking on the subject betrays your true feelings and at best a lack of maturity, at worst a lack of conviction. I think it is sad.

"Money is the root of all evil. Yeah, money is the root.
It's not racism and "this-ism" and "that-ism"; it's our thirst and hunger for money.
And that's where all the bodies are buried."
- Ice Cube

[MagisterXF94]

QUOTE (KGJV @ Jul 29 2017, 09:01 PM) As stated already my code is a fork toward a single player game (but with a game server and later on multiplayer features).

I've already trashed and changed too many things to go back. I've dropped everything AGC, OLE/COM and registry related. In fact my plan is to have the server and the client to run on Linux too (and yeah that means getting ride of DirectPlay and Direct3D).
It's a mid term project not compatible with your short term plan to reboot Alleg on Steam. I might eventually end up on Steam too but it will be a completely different game (don't expect anything on that front before mid 2018).

I will keep my changes open for now, here: https://github.com/kgersen/Allegiance/tree/kgwork (notice: it's in a special branch 'kgwork' so the master branch is still in sync with your FreeAllegiance/Allegiance).
You're free to "cherry pick" changes from this branch , I think it's the easiest way to proceed for the time been.

I need to take a more days if not weeks to think more in details about how we can eventually cooperate, I care about an Alleg reboot on Steam but I already see too many sudden excitements and hasty decisions here. May be our projects can merge back together later on, in a few months, but it's too early.

I don't work like this, there is no real rush here. The new licence/steam stuff doesn't miraculously solve old problems, it doesn't change much in fact, except that most people loudly voicing their opinion aren't 'doers' so they won't contribute anymore now than before...on the manpower front nothing has changed yet. May be start advertising for devs on Steam and whatnot.

I really think everyone need to clam down, take a deep breath or in a few weeks that whole excitement will be gone and we will be back to where we were (I hope not but I'm afraid we will).

Look we are all hyped, i'm trying to capitalize on that hype by focusing us on something good.

BT is gonna start working and we will give him the support he requires.

I hope I can change your mind further down the line.

best of luck on your project

[beeman]

QUOTE (AEM @ Jul 29 2017, 02:42 PM) I doubt anyone is thinking about making money on this Allegiance. At best there could be some kind of cosmetic upgrade (skins) sold and that wouldn't even cover hosting expenses. I really wouldn't feel bad about rewriting an Allegiance 2 and selling it, although I don't see that ever happening as it could have been done already (as a clone that had entirely new names, factions, etc).

To put this in perspective I would expect maybe 10-15 downloads from new players per week from just being on Steam. During the month this news hits social media, game sites, etc perhaps a total of 1,000 downloads max or a little higher if very lucky. If anything close to it's current state the majority of those downloads will not even result in playing an online game (either due to problems or logging in during off peak hours and seeing hardly anyone playing).

At peak hours after the news hits we may break 100, maybe even closer to 150, online on weekends. But many of these players won't stick around, even if we put forth our best efforts. A month or two later the hope is we might come out of this basically having turned back the clock like 5 years and doubling the number of active players. That certainly will help a lot, but it will still be a small number of players active in Allegiance.

To help we will want to dump a decent amount of money into advertising right as the news hits to further boost the number of new players coming in. If the game looks dead players won't even bother trying it out. So we need to bring in a ton of new players at the same time to revive the game.

+1